Effects of zoning on Houston city and suburban living (Fort Worth: low income, apartments)

[levi415]

In reading of various threads about moving to/living in Houston and the resultant threads that come from a "Houston zoning" keyword search, I'm finding bits and pieces of information about "zoning". As I'm pretty uninformed about this kind of stuff, I think I need more information to fill in a lot of blanks I still have.

I don't really have a sense of what city zoning is/does but what I've read here (oddly enough, about Fort Worth) seems pretty easy to understand.

Zoning | City of Fort Worth, Texas.

In this Houston forum, here's some of what I gather about comments regarding zoning/lack of zoning:

- no zoning makes buying a house/property cheaper (compared to zoned cities)
- zoning makes neighborhoods more convenient (e.g. necessary stores and services are closer to residential areas, either within reasonable walking distance or short drive)
- no zoning means that a pedestrian/driver can be passing through multi-million dollar neighborhoods one minute and be in a low income/high crime/underdeveloped neighborhood ("ghetto", for lack of better 1-word description) the next minute

Looking for opinions/insight/experiences based on how all this does/should/should not affect where I decide to live. I realize this is a rather open-ended question but not sure how better to ask it.

My reactions to the 3 examples above, to give you an idea of how I'm rationalizing things:

- no zoning = cheap houses: cool, except I don't plan on staying in Houston beyond a few years so most likely will be renting, not buying (granted, maybe no zoning = cheap rent too... if so, bonus.)

- zoning = more orderly and convenient development around residential areas: great for me, as I don't particularly like driving short distances. Don't hate it, just don't love it.

- no zoning = accidentally walking/driving into the "wrong part of town": this part concerns me a bit and I'm curious how serious this is, in reality, when compared to the way some people here describe it. Based on some posts here, I almost get the feeling that you can literally be walking/driving for a few minutes/blocks and suddenly find yourself in a very dangerous/scary place. In reality, is it such that you really have to know your "boundary" streets that mustn't be crossed and always be... on your guard, I guess?

I've spent considerable time walking/driving around cities like Seattle, LA, Orlando, and DC where you really have to drive out of your way to end up somewhere "scary/dangerous". Obviously, in any big US city, there are places you don't want to venture into past dark or to simply avoid at any time of day but in my limited experience, you deliberately have to go out of your way to put yourself in these areas.

As an aside, I've lived in non-US cities like Tokyo and Hong Kong where there are very few truly scary/dangerous places and thus I've never had to think about something like this, even when walking around at 2am. But, since those places are not the US, maybe it's neither here nor there. Simply a statement of my inexperience.

Thanks, as usual, for any and all input.

[Neo45]

Honestly the whole crime boogeyman that you see here on here is greatly exagerrated and I suspect racially motivated in many posters. I have a very hard time believing you'll just accidentally walk into a bad area unless you're a bum and walk around all day. Who cares if you drive into a bad area? Nobody's gonna shoot at your car. Some people are such babies geez even my old grandparents drive around the bad areas without getting paranoid

[LocalPlanner]

Being without land use zoning (what people traditionally mean by zoning) generally makes housing cheaper (both for-sale and rental) because (1) the supply of land for new housing isn't artificially constrained, and even existing single family detached homes can be quickly converted into other types of residential; and (2) while there are still planning and development regulations that entail a regulatory process a developer must engage with, there's no zoning approval process to add extra time and cost.

The "legitimate" negatives people in Houston have with the lack of zoning include:

- Intrusion of undesirable commercial uses (most notably industrial) into otherwise residential areas; this rarely happens now, but was commonplace during the middle of the 20th century, especially in the inner city where land was so cheap that industrial made sense
- A lack of certainty about what might be built in proximity to land you own, thus increasing value risk; though, this can work both ways - your property might unexpectedly grow in value if higher value or higher density uses are built nearby.

Other complaints about the lack of zoning - that a tall building might get built nearby, that apartments might get built in your school zone, that it makes the city "ugly", that it encourages urban sprawl - are not legitimate, because they are either invalid as complaints (e.g., a tall building nearby, apartments in school zone), or because there's not necessarily a true cause-and-effect relationship (ugliness, sprawl).

One huge benefit of a lack of zoning that's rarely mentioned is that there's not the additional opportunity for public corruption that you have in many other places - a developer can't bribe a public official to rezone a parcel if there's no zoning.

[Johnhw2]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Being without land use zoning (what people traditionally mean by zoning) generally makes housing cheaper (both for-sale and rental) because (1) the supply of land for new housing isn't artificially constrained, and even existing single family detached homes can be quickly converted into other types of residential; and (2) while there are still planning and development regulations that entail a regulatory process a developer must engage with, there's no zoning approval process to add extra time and cost.

The "legitimate" negatives people in Houston have with the lack of zoning include:

- Intrusion of undesirable commercial uses (most notably industrial) into otherwise residential areas; this rarely happens now, but was commonplace during the middle of the 20th century, especially in the inner city where land was so cheap that industrial made sense
- A lack of certainty about what might be built in proximity to land you own, thus increasing value risk; though, this can work both ways - your property might unexpectedly grow in value if higher value or higher density uses are built nearby.

Other complaints about the lack of zoning - that a tall building might get built nearby, that apartments might get built in your school zone, that it makes the city "ugly", that it encourages urban sprawl - are not legitimate, because they are either invalid as complaints (e.g., a tall building nearby, apartments in school zone), or because there's not necessarily a true cause-and-effect relationship (ugliness, sprawl).

One huge benefit of a lack of zoning that's rarely mentioned is that there's not the additional opportunity for public corruption that you have in many other places - a developer can't bribe a public official to rezone a parcel if there's no zoning.

Great post one of the most balanced about zoning and non zoning on CD.

I believe some additional benefits of no zoning are good restaurants from the "threat" of next door competition keeps prices down and quality up. Another benefit is when a "bad run down residential area is near jobs or other locations" its use can change without artificial administrative steps. accidentally walking into a bad area is less likely in Houston than zoned cities since mere zoning can not over come market forces which even brilliant land planners can not always foresee. In many suburban cities with zoning invariably the city over states demand for commercial land especially when that city is neighboring another zoned city where commercial demand is also seen as high use of land and tax valuable. I wonder what will happen when zoned commercial land stays vacant for decades...will a change in use occur that surprises existing property owners?

I like living in Plano with its residential planning and streets such as Parkwood or Tulane in my area giving me a back way into areas with busy traffic from their front doors. But whats nice about Houston is you can pick... Houston proper with no zoning or the MPC such as Kingwood and the Woodlands which are land use planned and defined.

With private zoning such these MPC have, there is no gov bureaucracy telling land owners how to use the land they own. Zoning is designed to protect the status quo and can price many out of an area with large lots and limiting supply.

Zoning builds in the status quo which sounds like a conservative principle but stricter zoning in east coast cities which are not conservative in politics is interesting. There must be degrees of zoning not apparent to a layman like me but I find it curious that only one large city, Houston has no zoning.

[levi415]

Thanks, Neo45. You very well could be right.

LocalPlanner and Johnhw2, great information for me.

With regards to a newcomer (like me) to Houston then, how dramatic are the effects of non-zoning when exploring the city? Perhaps it's simply paranoia as Neo45 said, and perhaps it's human nature's natural tendency to focus on perceived dangers, but how much should one worry about the result of non-zoned neighborhoods when choosing a place to live?

Although I'm not saying it's not an issue, I'm less concerned (for now) about how non-zoning might allow for a sky scraper to be built next to a mom-and-pop supermarket and more concerned about it might inadvertently put people near less-than-desirable areas. With that said, is Houston literally a hodgepodge/grid of upscale neighborhoods minutes away from a high-crime, low income neighborhood? In these situations, does crime spill over? (seems like a logical tendency but I don't know... as an example, people that live on the rich side of Palo Alto, CA don't seem to concerned or aware of the people that live across the freeway on the poor side and maybe vice versa).

Thanks.

Or is this just my own paranoia from reading too much negative stuff on the internet?

[crono_clone]

You know what else they haven't told you about Houston?

Criminals here have cars.

They. Can. Find. You.

(Unless you live on a toll road. Criminals don't like to pay tolls).

[chris_ut]

I wouldn't sweat it too much levi just follow your instincts. Bad signs are usually lots of abandoned shopping carts on the side of the road or guys sitting on the sidewalk playing dice in the middle of the afternoon.

[levi415]

chris_ut, thanks. Good to know. Have to tell myself to relax then.

crono_clone, I didn't know that, thanks. Criminals in Seattle have recumbent bikes. But I always outrun them in my Leaf.

Oh, don't mean to bug you but one last question: can you recommend any good apartments on toll roads?

[LocalPlanner]

Also examine the commercial establishments in the area. A high number of payday loan / car title loan places is usually not a good sign. More and more, "brand name" grocery stores locate only in "nicer" neighborhoods, so proximity to one of those is often a positive and especially if there's more than one brand represented nearby. A lot of churches locating in what would otherwise be commercial business spaces is also a bad sign.

But as previously noted, crime in the Houston area is very widespread and not confined to certain sections of town - people rag on the bus lines but the criminals mostly have automobiles (or steal them). Of late, violent crime seems to be decreasing in the city and increasing in the suburbs, especially the unincorporated areas. Property crime, however, truly is everywhere - even in the rural areas you should never leave your house unlocked. Never ever EVER leave anything of value on the seat or floor of your car - even at a gas pump while you run in to buy a coke. In ANY part of town. It is what it is, you sort of get used to it here.

[AK123]

I think the effects of the lack of land zoning are mostly exaggerated, and mostly aesthetic.
Some will call it ugly, others will call it quirky and weird.