Why is Houston the most attacked city in Texas? By other Texas cities? (Dallas: buy, closing)

[madrone2k]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

I was somewhat with your post until your second to last sentence saying that towns even near Austin or SA had more of a downtown district. To me, that invalidated your entire post.

I don't mind that you disagree with me, but could you cite evidence for your claim? In my memory, I might admit that the town of Boerne (near SA) might have been similar in the 1970s - smaller but somewhat quainter - than Richmond/Rosenburg. However, Houston never had a neighbor like New Braunfels or Kerrville. Or for that matter, Seguin or San Marcos. Out of spite, I could cite Austin, but that is just for fun ;-)

[War Beagle]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

DFW had more "pre-existing" cities and towns before the mid-20th century urban explosion of the Dallas and Fort Worth. They had their own downtowns and identity. Houston basically lacked that - once you left the young City of Houston it was just low-population countryside and farmland. Places like Alief, Fairbanks, Addicks, Missouri City, League City were pretty much nothing-villes compared to Plano, Garland, Grapevine, Burleson, McKinney, etc. So, DFW just had more to start with in this regard. Even our few historic suburban downtowns (Tomball, Humble, Conroe, Baytown) seem wimpy compared to a number of the ones around DFW. (I'm excepting Galveston, of course, which is just unique in Texas period).

Yep, major differences. I've noticed in the Houston area that many of the place names were historically census-designated places. In contrast DFW was surrounded by many incorporated towns before it all merged together.

Is Frisco really all that different than Allen or Mesquite? Probably not, but it does add a little flavor, at least in the old downtowns. I'll give Houston credit for having the various management districts that attempt to provide some flavor in different parts of the city

[War Beagle]

Originally Posted by madrone2k

To me, it's only the towns of Richmond and Rosenburg that stand out as distinct entities near Houston. Sugar Land does, to a lesser extent, but it really was a company town. No one here ever mentions Angleton or Lake Jackson, but they were also distinct entities, albeit farther from the core of Houston.

I agree, but some might argue you could add Pasadena or Spring to the list? I'm not familiar enough with either to say if they would warrant inclusion.

But yes, Richmond/Rosenberg are distinct entities near Houston. Interestingly, Sugar Land has modeled itself as the Houston version of DFW city-suburbs like Plano, but it's largely artificial. Sugar Land had to invent a fake downtown whereas Richmond/Rosenberg have genuine, historic downtowns.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by michaeltx9412

I live in Austin so I know lots of people from Houston and almost 99% of them seem to hate the city they came from. lol

True, but this is a very self-selecting group. People from Houston who like Houston tend to stay in Houston. People from Houston who move to Austin did so for a reason.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by madrone2k

In the 1960s, I was a kid and rode my bike through Addicks a number of times and up Highway 6 to the north. Even earlier, a summer art class I took had us sketch the little old church that sat just south of Addicks Dam. Based on those experiences, I don't think there was much there, compared to Katy. At least Katy had -- in addition to the grain storage facilities and the RR stop -- a hospital and a Ford dealership. However, in those days it seemed really way out in the country and even now "Old Katy" seems to have been much smaller than Plano and other cities around Dallas were. I'm not really arguing a point here, but I've always wondered why there were (apparently to me) more small towns in north Texas that had growth spurts that towns around Houston did not have. I do know that a lot of towns in north Texas boomed with the cotton business ... but I wonder why that would not have also been true around Houston, which did also have a lot of cotton farming.

To me, it's only the towns of Richmond and Rosenburg that stand out as distinct entities near Houston. Sugar Land does, to a lesser extent, but it really was a company town. No one here ever mentions Angleton or Lake Jackson, but they were also distinct entities, albeit farther from the core of Houston.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but it's in part because I remember spending a summer in Dallas in the mid-70s and was interested to note that there were towns nearby that had "downtowns" and were distinct from the city of Dallas. For instance, UT-Dallas was still surrounded by corn fields while Plano was considered "way out in the country" but had a small downtown. Meanwhile, there were small towns south of Dallas (like Streetman) that boomed in the cotton era and basically disappeared later ... many of the banks and other businesses gone with the wind.

If you look at the cities I named, only Plano is the outlier. The others were county seats or in between Dallas and Fort Worth. I think that's where the biggest difference comes from. But it is interesting how the historic downtowns, even if just a few blocks, are more prominent in the DFW burbs that were of similar size to some of the Houston burbs. It also means Houston has the larger central core.

[timlot]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

If you look at the cities I named, only Plano is the outlier. The others were county seats or in between Dallas and Fort Worth. I think that's where the biggest difference comes from. But it is interesting how the historic downtowns, even if just a few blocks, are more prominent in the DFW burbs that were of similar size to some of the Houston burbs. It also means Houston has the larger central core.

I think its important for Houston to keep that core. All the major sports teams, universities, and Texas medical center reside within the inner 610 loop with the Galleria just on the outskirts. It would suck if folks had to drive out to Sugarland or up to The Woodlands to see the Houston Texans play.

[madrone2k]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

I agree, but some might argue you could add Pasadena or Spring to the list? I'm not familiar enough with either to say if they would warrant inclusion.

But yes, Richmond/Rosenberg are distinct entities near Houston. Interestingly, Sugar Land has modeled itself as the Houston version of DFW city-suburbs like Plano, but it's largely artificial. Sugar Land had to invent a fake downtown whereas Richmond/Rosenberg have genuine, historic downtowns.

I only mentioned towns that I had memories of from the 1960s. I think of Pasadena and Spring as being very different towns. Today, there is an Old Town Spring which makes it recognizable. I'm not sure what Pasadena has today.

In my memory, Sugar Land definitely had an identity in the 1960s. However, I don't remember any sort of downtown. Just the sugar refinery, a nice residential community along the canals by Highway 90A, and the prison complex.

I'm not well-versed in the history of Richmond, but I think the Anglo settlements there go back to the period when Stephen F. Austin was bringing colonists to Texas (part of Mexico at the time). In the 70s, I accompanied a friend who like to explore old settlements and we stumbled upon an old cistern near there that I think was from the mid-1800s. We also explored an old decaying mansion in Richmond that ultimately was moved to the George Ranch and restored (fortunately).

[SanJac]

Originally Posted by edwinpa7

Is it jealousy? If so Why?

Why can't you be happy a Texas city is representing Texas so well?

I've done research on the Texas forum. And out of the top 4 cities it's Houston with the most hate threads, it seems.

Why? Why not support Houston.

I guess that old saying "if they all love you, you're doing something wrong" is true.

It really hurts my heart that we get bashed so much. Houston has been good to me and I'm ready to defend it.

What's up?

Most of the posts in this thread point out all the things that are "wrong" with Houston. Why does Houston get bashed by other Texas cities? Because we live in a "dog eat dog" competitive society and everyone is trying to claw to the top.

Houston has the Texas Medical Center, the Port of Houston, NASA, a world-class symphony orchestra and opera company, a great theater district, national-if not world recognized museums, nationally acclaimed Buffalo Bayou park and Discovery Green, is a top notch food city, AND is the energy capital of the WORLD. We also have top notch sporting facilities either downtown or near downtown, have hosted the most recent Superbowl in Texas (and the most), and were just awarded the NCAA Final Four in 2023. And we are FINALLY developing what I'm sure will become a world-class botanical garden, not to mention the upcoming renovation of Memorial Park.

OF COURSE Houston is the envy of other Texas cities! For all the self-deprecation of Houstonians (and our lousy newspaper), somehow Houston has managed to do a lot of things RIGHT!

Houston just keeps doing what Houston does - ignore the haters and naysayers and moves forward!

But I am most proud to call myself a Houstonian because this city is a city that gives. We help our neighbors when they are down. Ask Hurricane Katrina evacuees how they feel about Houston. Talk to some Hurricane Harvey flood victims. We are the great American melting pot and we live together harmoniously. We take the good from all cultures and melt it with genuine Houston hospitality and goodness.

Ignore the haters. You know what we have here. Just be happy!

[War Beagle]

Originally Posted by madrone2k

In my memory, Sugar Land definitely had an identity in the 1960s. However, I don't remember any sort of downtown. Just the sugar refinery, a nice residential community along the canals by Highway 90A, and the prison complex.

I'm not well-versed in the history of Richmond, but I think the Anglo settlements there go back to the period when Stephen F. Austin was bringing colonists to Texas (part of Mexico at the time). In the 70s, I accompanied a friend who like to explore old settlements and we stumbled upon an old cistern near there that I think was from the mid-1800s. We also explored an old decaying mansion in Richmond that ultimately was moved to the George Ranch and restored (fortunately).

I know for a fact sugar land never had a real downtown. There was a neighborhood for management, a neighborhood for white employees and a neighborhood for black employees. But as you said, it was a company town and the center of everything was the refinery.

I believe Richmond was part of the old 300 families. It's a lot older than Rosenberg, which came around the 1890s as a railroad town. Richmond and Rosenberg have an odd relationship. They are virtually indistinguishable from one another and the demographics and income levels are essentially the same. But because Richmond is the county seat, it looks down on Rosenberg, which had a history of being more agricultural or blue collar.

[ftbend06]

I’m bumping something old and obviously way behind in this conversation but have some thoughts on the original question (btw lots of interesting discussion here, particularly on Ft Bend County above).

I’ve always said I think Houston gets smashed because it’s bad on paper. Flat, humidity, traffic, relatively unattractive built environment, more-disorganized-than-normal sprawl, etc. Yes those things are present in other Texas cities as well but the consensus is probably more so in Houston when you take all the things into consideration. HOWEVER, you cannot judge a place just based on those data points imo. My opinion, Houston has a great feel/spirit (whatever you want to call it) that cannot be quantified and imo cannot be known until you live here. (Yes this is all very subjective).