UT Land by NRG (university, moving to, federal)

[DanielWayne]

Originally Posted by EDS_

UT-Dallas, UTEP, UTSA and UTA are all Ph.D granting intensive research unviersities. The idea they are sleepy also ran schools needs to be retired.

I don't know Houston very well nor what UT's specific plans might have been. However, if the lost, "UT-Houston" campus would have been a UT-Dallas like institution the area missed out on a great opportunity.

The UT system didn't have a plan. That's why their chancellor got blasted by the state senate. Nobody on this thread who posted in favor of the new campus can produce a comprehensive plan because no such thing ever existed. The state outlines strict procedures for starting a new campus. The UT system bypassed a lot of these procedures and was kind of making it up as they go. They also expected to push over UH like the old days when UH didn't have any political influence or powerful alumni willing to back them up. And they soon found that was another miscalculation.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by DanielWayne

The UT system didn't have a plan. That's why their chancellor got blasted by the state senate. Nobody on this thread who posted in favor of the new campus can produce a comprehensive plan because no such thing ever existed. The state outlines strict procedures for starting a new campus. The UT system bypassed a lot of these procedures and was kind of making it up as they go. They also expected to push over UH like the old days when UH didn't have any political influence or powerful alumni willing to back them up. And they soon found that was another miscalculation.

Be that as it may if UT was planning a UT-Dallas part II it's too bad it didn't happen. If UT was actually planning to build a simple data center on that property they are crazy. Bash on UT all you'd like the Orangebloods are not crazy.

[EricInFrisco]

Originally Posted by EDS_

UT-Dallas, UTEP, UTSA and UTA are all Ph.D granting intensive research unviersities. The idea they are sleepy also ran schools needs to be retired.

I don't know Houston very well nor what UT's specific plans might have been. However, if the lost, "UT-Houston" campus would have been a UT-Dallas like institution the area missed out on a great opportunity.

Absolutely! UT Dallas, El Paso, and Arlington are all Carnegie R1 universities and doing over $100 million each of research annually. And, walk these campuses. They are pretty nice!

[DanielWayne]

Again, for the last time, why duplicate infrastructure with a brand new campus 5 miles away from an existing research institution that already compares academically and athletically to some of the flagships in neighboring states. And UH has achieved this status without the massive state support thrown at UT and Texas A&M. Just imagine if the state took the funding for the imaginary UT campus and applied it to raising UH's flagship potential. Imagine Texas with 4 flagship universities (Tech too). And one more thing - UH already has a research park that could easily accommodate whatever nebulous data center plans were thrown at it. I think people are afraid of the potential reality of more to the state than the 2 flagships.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by DanielWayne

Again, for the last time, why duplicate infrastructure with a brand new campus 5 miles away from an existing research institution that already compares academically and athletically to some of the flagships in neighboring states. And UH has achieved this status without the massive state support thrown at UT and Texas A&M. Just imagine if the state took the funding for the imaginary UT campus and applied it to raising UH's flagship potential. Imagine Texas with 4 flagship universities (Tech too). And one more thing - UH already has a research park that could easily accommodate whatever nebulous data center plans were thrown at it. I think people are afraid of the potential reality of more to the state than the 2 flagships.

Assuming the data center thing was a farce.

Because UT in just about every way that matters is bigger and better than UH and that mass and positive intertia have percolated into a UT-Houston campus.

[CoogHawk]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Assuming the data center thing was a farce.

Because UT in just about every way that matters is bigger and better than UH and that mass and positive intertia have percolated into a UT-Houston campus.

You did not answer his question. You simply reiterated your original opinion that UT is “just better” so it should get all the resources while UH and other schools (including Texas Tech) should just go away, or wither on the vine? Not sure what your solution is to that question.

Finally, the State helped organize and create the UH System for a reason. That was because it believed that the city needed a top notch public institution for people in the area. Not everyone wants to got to UT-Austin or A&M. And due to the way UT runs its system, unless you are at the UT Austin campus, you are second fiddle. It’s not like the UC or SUNY systems, where there are multiple flagship campuses with great reputations and resources separate and apart from the main campus. For example, UC Berkeley (Cal) is a great school, but UCLA, USCD, UC Irvine and UCSB are also great schools and they are all AAU members. SUNY Buffalo and SUNY Stony Brook are both AAU members, and SUNY Binghamton is well on its way. While I am sure UT-Dallas is a good school, nobody in there right mind is going to honestly argue that UT-D is as good as UT-Austin it that you get a similar experience going to UT-D that you do going to UT-A. I know people who have attended UT-D and UT-Arlington and they can attest that it’s just not the same.

Again, this is all about UT-A wanting to be the big fish in a small pond rather than a regular fish in a large pond with multiple regular fish. It’s greed pure and simple, and the state of Texas has suffered as a result.

Just think about it: I don’t know how old you are or how long you’ve lived in Texas, but I recall when I was a teenage in the mid 1990’s, then Governor Bush passed the Top 10 Percent rule, which grants automatic admission to any Texas public university to any public high school student in Texas that graduates in the top 10 percent of their class. The gnashing of teeth from many suburbanites was enough to make your ears bleed. How wills Susie get into UT-A now? Good heavens. So ask yourself, if UTEP, UT-D and UT-Arlington were such good schools, then couldn’t Susie just a go to one of those UT campuses instead? Yet many of the Susie’s decided to leave the state and go to regional flagship schools like CU, OU, LSU and Arkansas, where there was more room. People voted with their feet, because they did not view those regional UT campuses as equivalent or close substitutes. That is why the state decided to try and spend money to upgrade the likes of UH, Texas Tech, and yes regional UT campuses. UT-A hated it then and still hates it to this day. That is why people were pissed at what UT tried to do in Houston, because they are undermining the states attempt to create other flagship schools that will stop the brain drain.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by EricInFrisco

Absolutely! UT Dallas, El Paso, and Arlington are all Carnegie R1 universities and doing over $100 million each of research annually. And, walk these campuses. They are pretty nice!

More like just over $50 million, not $100 million.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by CoogHawk

You did not answer his question. You simply reiterated your original opinion that UT is “just better” so it should get all the resources while UH and other schools (including Texas Tech) should just go away, or wither on the vine? Not sure what your solution is to that question.

Finally, the State helped organize and create the UH System for a reason. That was because it believed that the city needed a top notch public institution for people in the area. Not everyone wants to got to UT-Austin or A&M. And due to the way UT runs its system, unless you are at the UT Austin campus, you are second fiddle. It’s not like the UC or SUNY systems, where there are multiple flagship campuses with great reputations and resources separate and apart from the main campus. For example, UC Berkeley (Cal) is a great school, but UCLA, USCD, UC Irvine and UCSB are also great schools and they are all AAU members. SUNY Buffalo and SUNY Stony Brook are both AAU members, and SUNY Binghamton is well on its way. While I am sure UT-Dallas is a good school, nobody in there right mind is going to honestly argue that UT-D is as good as UT-Austin it that you get a similar experience going to UT-D that you do going to UT-A. I know people who have attended UT-D and UT-Arlington and they can attest that it’s just not the same.

Again, this is all about UT-A wanting to be the big fish in a small pond rather than a regular fish in a large pond with multiple regular fish. It’s greed pure and simple, and the state of Texas has suffered as a result.

Just think about it: I don’t know how old you are or how long you’ve lived in Texas, but I recall when I was a teenage in the mid 1990’s, then Governor Bush passed the Top 10 Percent rule, which grants automatic admission to any Texas public university to any public high school student in Texas that graduates in the top 10 percent of their class. The gnashing of teeth from many suburbanites was enough to make your ears bleed. How wills Susie get into UT-A now? Good heavens. So ask yourself, if UTEP, UT-D and UT-Arlington were such good schools, then couldn’t Susie just a go to one of those UT campuses instead? Yet many of the Susie’s decided to leave the state and go to regional flagship schools like CU, OU, LSU and Arkansas, where there was more room. People voted with their feet, because they did not view those regional UT campuses as equivalent or close substitutes. That is why the state decided to try and spend money to upgrade the likes of UH, Texas Tech, and yes regional UT campuses. UT-A hated it then and still hates it to this day. That is why people were pissed at what UT tried to do in Houston, because they are undermining the states attempt to create other flagship schools that will stop the brain drain.

More of the bs put out by UH people with a persecution complex. UT strongly supported the upgrades to Houston and Texas Tech and the other UT schools. If you have to put a selfish reason on it, its this: UT is getting a lot of pressure to expand its enrollment. They don't believe they can support much more than 50,000 students while maintaining their quality. A&M buckled to the pressure and is now pushing 70,000 students. UT wants Tech and Houston and UTD and UTA to be viable alternatives. And Berkeley and UCLA are the premier UC campuses. Many of the others may be great, but the others don't have the "similar experience." Also, there is a synergy. More research institutions is a positive for the region, unlike UH people who tend to view things with a zero sum mentality, UT doesn't think that way.

[EricInFrisco]

Originally Posted by bu2

More like just over $50 million, not $100 million.

BU2, perception lags reality:

2019 Research Expenditures by UT Arlington: $117 million

2019 Research Expenditures by UT Dallas: $126 million

2019 Research Expenditures by UT El Paso: $101 million

This comes straight from the THECB interactive accountability system.

Another interesting tid-bit: UT Arlington has 7 faculty with membership in the national academies.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by EricInFrisco

BU2, perception lags reality:

2019 Research Expenditures by UT Arlington: $117 million

2019 Research Expenditures by UT Dallas: $126 million

2019 Research Expenditures by UT El Paso: $101 million

This comes straight from the THECB interactive accountability system.

Another interesting tid-bit: UT Arlington has 7 faculty with membership in the national academies.

NRUF report shows $50 million for UTEP, $45 million for UTA and the prior report showed $52 million for UTD.
https://reportcenter.highered.texas....d-eligibility/

NRUF calls it "restricted" research expenditures. I don't know what the difference would be between those and the other system's reports. Externally funded perhaps?