‘Stop putting cars over people’: Harris County sues TxDOT over I-45 expansion project (Houston: townhouse, employment)

[Mr. Clutch]

Originally Posted by NTexas2010

This is the one thing to bear in mind when trotting out the argument of induced demand. People like to point to the Katy Freeway as THE example of induced demand, when in fact the Katy area had already exploded in growth well prior to the expansion of I-10. Just look at Fulshear for reference - it boomed without the expansion of 1093.

That isn't to say that induced demand is a complete fallacy, but those that treat it as gospel would do well to understand the real life examples they cite.

Yep induced demand does exist to some extent, but its often overcited as the reason for increased traffic.

Katy in 2003 was nothing like Katy is now and the Energy Corridor wasn't really a thing until the expansion was complete. Had nothing happened, neither would be like they are today - Katy would have still grown to some extent, but not nearly as much. All of those companies in the Energy Corridor would not likely have moved out there - they would have either chosen somewhere else in the metro that was less traffic-clogged or another metro entirely.

At the time that construction started, I-10 between the Loop and the Beltway was the most congested freeway segment in the state and one of the worst in country.

[oceangaia]

The katy project was a huge success. Anyone that thinks it is congested now must have never seen it before. We lie in a metro of 4 million. No freeway is going to be uncongested during peak hours. Katy used to be congested 12 hours a day 7 days a week.



The 290 rebuild is great for now. In ten years it too will be questioned by some who don't remember what it was like before.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

The katy project was a huge success. Anyone that thinks it is congested now must have never seen it before. We lie in a metro of 4 million. No freeway is going to be uncongested during peak hours. Katy used to be congested 12 hours a day 7 days a week.



The 290 rebuild is great for now. In ten years it too will be questioned by some who don't remember what it was like before.

The problem stems from politicians and voters who think a freeway project must "solve congestion." In a growing thriving urban area, a congestion reduction is going to be temporary, at least on untolled free access lanes. No one is owed an uncongested trip on untolled lanes.

If we could switch the messaging to "this project will move more people through the corridor" then it would quiet the anti-congestion freaks and the anti-freeway activists who claim projects are failures.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

The problem stems from politicians and voters who think a freeway project must "solve congestion." In a growing thriving urban area, a congestion reduction is going to be temporary, at least on untolled free access lanes. No one is owed an uncongested trip on untolled lanes.

If we could switch the messaging to "this project will move more people through the corridor" then it would quiet the anti-congestion freaks and the anti-freeway activists who claim projects are failures.

I'm not sure why some people think we can expand transportation infrastructure once and never need to again. When the population grows we need to expand infrastructure. That means build more schools, more power distribution centers, more water lines, more freeways, more everything.

[Felt38]

Awesome that Harris County is doing this. The St Emmanuel area will be leveled on the west side of the street and many businesses and apartments will be flattened. I-45 and Pierce elevated isn’t great but I do like the view of the city from it. Reminds me of driving through Chicago on I94. The new highway project is too expensive and not really needed.

[stoneclaw]

7 billion could allow for more rail transit and freeway improvements to the existing freeway, not re-routing a freeway and tearing up the existing businesses along the way.

I-45 coming in to downtown from the North is one of the most majestic drives in the state. Did TXDOT really have it out for Houston that bad that they want to take away one of the few gems it has?

[AcresHomes44]

Originally Posted by WRM20

TxDOT's plan destroys Inner Loop neighborhoods to improve the commutes of people in The Woodlands, Spring, and Conroe. I don't think the priorities are right. Choosing to live 30 miles from Downtown is on the people who live there. Maybe more congestion will convince more of them to ride the bus, rather than having thousands of cars with only one person taking up space.

Facts. It's only for convenience of suburbanites who commute to Houston. I don't see how this will benefit those in the city. If you want to live 30 miles outside of Houston, cool, but don't cry about long commutes.

[airdrawndagger]

Traffic on 45 at present is pretty bad - I can't imagine how bad it will be when you add in construction-induced slowdowns. And people thought 290 construction was terrible... just wait.

[Spade]

If they really want to stop putting cars over people, they would tear down all freeways inside the loop, have 610 be Houston's version of the M25 or Boulevard Peripherique, and transform the areas inside the loop like a American bayou version of London or Paris.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by AcresHomes44

Facts. It's only for convenience of suburbanites who commute to Houston. I don't see how this will benefit those in the city. If you want to live 30 miles outside of Houston, cool, but don't cry about long commutes.

I see your point, but the problem is that workers will choose to live in the far suburbs due to their prejudices, especially against having socioeconomic diversity (as well as racial) in their children's classrooms. And the health of the urban office markets like Downtown and Uptown is dependent on the workers in those buildings having a satisfactory commute. And the city is dependent upon those buildings for property tax revenue - if they go vacant (which is already a looming problem), those values drop a bunch and thus so does tax revenue.

It's an unfortunate situation.