Biden's Plan : calls for improvements to Amtrak’s high-traffic Washington-Boston corridor & expanded service to Houston (San Antonio: how much, theater)

[RG1981]

Originally Posted by DanielWayne

I would use it. I despise flying. You can actually have privacy on a train.

I would totally love something like this. I also hate to fly.

But, that said, it's a pipe dream that will never happen. It's just way too expensive and Americans prefer cars and planes. End of story.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by RG1981

I would totally love something like this. I also hate to fly.

But, that said, it's a pipe dream that will never happen. It's just way too expensive and Americans prefer cars and planes. End of story.

I don't know what your personal views are-- but this statement sounds like the difference between conservative thinking and progressive thinking. Conservative thinking is "it is what it is, change is expensive/complicated. End of story." Progressives think about how things COULD be, and recognize the historical context around the creation of policies. They weren't dropped on earth by God.

Transportation spending doesn't have to be limited to highways. Minimum wage doesn't have to suck. People don't have to choose careers based on health insurance needs. Women don't have to choose not to work because child care would cost 80% of their pay. It is that way now, but it doesn't have to be that way.

The "it's too expensive" argument is the worst, too. It ignores the billions we spend on all kinds of things that we simply accept, then labels other things "too expensive."

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

I don't know what your personal views are-- but this statement sounds like the difference between conservative thinking and progressive thinking. Conservative thinking is "it is what it is, change is expensive/complicated. End of story." Progressives think about how things COULD be, and recognize the historical context around the creation of policies. They weren't dropped on earth by God.

Transportation spending doesn't have to be limited to highways. Minimum wage doesn't have to suck. People don't have to choose careers based on health insurance needs. Women don't have to choose not to work because child care would cost 80% of their pay. It is that way now, but it doesn't have to be that way.

The "it's too expensive" argument is the worst, too. It ignores the billions we spend on all kinds of things that we simply accept, then labels other things "too expensive."

"it's too expensive" is a valid criticism if it's something like cross country rail where 5 people a day would actually ride the train(it may be more, and probably is more, but you get the point that there will never be an occasion when 200+ people will board a train in Houston to travel to Los Angeles). We can't, as a society, afford to please every last person.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by WRM20

"it's too expensive" is a valid criticism if it's something like cross country rail where 5 people a day would actually ride the train(it may be more, and probably is more, but you get the point that there will never be an occasion when 200+ people will board a train in Houston to travel to Los Angeles). We can't, as a society, afford to please every last person.

Please attach your analysis, including the costs, comparative costs of roads, environmental impact, polling data etc. Or, I'll just prefer my opinion to your opinion, and move on.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

I don't know what your personal views are-- but this statement sounds like the difference between conservative thinking and progressive thinking. Conservative thinking is "it is what it is, change is expensive/complicated. End of story." Progressives think about how things COULD be, and recognize the historical context around the creation of policies. They weren't dropped on earth by God.

Transportation spending doesn't have to be limited to highways. Minimum wage doesn't have to suck. People don't have to choose careers based on health insurance needs. Women don't have to choose not to work because child care would cost 80% of their pay. It is that way now, but it doesn't have to be that way.

The "it's too expensive" argument is the worst, too. It ignores the billions we spend on all kinds of things that we simply accept, then labels other things "too expensive."

I get what you're saying, but the simple reality in the U.S. is that building rail is insanely expensive. Far more expensive than in most of the rest of the world, for whatever reason. Financially, it's very difficult for it to make sense except in rare circumstances like the Bos-Wash corridor. I don't even know that SA-Austin, probably the most obvious intercity corridor in TX for non-HSR, makes sense.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

I get what you're saying, but the simple reality in the U.S. is that building rail is insanely expensive. Far more expensive than in most of the rest of the world, for whatever reason. Financially, it's very difficult for it to make sense except in rare circumstances like the Bos-Wash corridor. I don't even know that SA-Austin, probably the most obvious intercity corridor in TX for non-HSR, makes sense.

I won't claim to know anything about the costs. But I think it's worth looking into, and seeing what's possible, and how it might add value alongside other options that are already there. I think it's shortsighted, and lacking in vision, to say "can't be done, move on."

For too long, Amtrak has been expected to turn a profit. When it didn't, Congress cut it off at the knees, disallowing any growth or reassessment or vision. Nobody asks highways to turn a profit. It's the same BS-- call one thing expensive while you mindlessly throw money at another thing.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

Please attach your analysis, including the costs, comparative costs of roads, environmental impact, polling data etc. Or, I'll just prefer my opinion to your opinion, and move on.

Unless you force Americans to ride trains for long distance trips, most of them won't. There is no great mass of people that wants to take 24 hours or more to go from Houston to LA, or Houston to Chicago, or Houston to the East Coast. Trips are even longer if trains are forced to use freight tracks.

There is probably a case to be made for shorter trips, like Houston to Dallas/Austin/San Antonio etc, but resistance is high to using any government money on those routes.

I am not particularly opposed to rail, but it has to make sense given resource constraints and reality.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by WRM20

Unless you force Americans to ride trains for long distance trips, most of them won't. There is no great mass of people that wants to take 24 hours or more to go from Houston to LA, or Houston to Chicago, or Houston to the East Coast. Trips are even longer if trains are forced to use freight tracks.

There is probably a case to be made for shorter trips, like Houston to Dallas/Austin/San Antonio etc, but resistance is high to using any government money on those routes.

I am not particularly opposed to rail, but it has to make sense given resource constraints and reality.

Well, sure. It has to make sense. But you have to do an actual analysis to see if it makes sense, not just a gut "people won't ride it" reaction. Let them do the work and figure it out.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

I won't claim to know anything about the costs. But I think it's worth looking into, and seeing what's possible, and how it might add value alongside other options that are already there. I think it's shortsighted, and lacking in vision, to say "can't be done, move on."

For too long, Amtrak has been expected to turn a profit. When it didn't, Congress cut it off at the knees, disallowing any growth or reassessment or vision. Nobody asks highways to turn a profit. It's the same BS-- call one thing expensive while you mindlessly throw money at another thing.

I agree that having Amtrak try to work this semi-public, semi-independent model is pretty much a failure. Either make it fully independent, which of course would mean huge cuts in service to far-flung places (which, oh well), or make it fully public.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by HookTheBrotherUp

Yes, he is dumb, and a liar, thanks for acknowledging this. But to be fair, he is past the early stages of dementia, so I will cut him some slack.

He left the White House 3 months ago