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Well, I have knowledge from those directly involved in the inception of the concept (I won't elaborate any further on that), and commuter office workers coming from P&Rs were unquestionably the primary focus. While connections to a future University and/or Inner Katy corridor were definitely hoped for, they were secondary justifications / benefits. This was partly from a lack of faith that METRO would ever actually make those east-west corridors come to pass.
Same goes for connections to the 25 and 82 lines for local METRO riders - they recognized that it would especially help the low/moderate wage workers in restaurants, stores, and hotels, but that was very much secondary to the white collar commuters.
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Originally Posted by LocalPlanner
Also, and similarly because I dialogued with many of the folks who worked to bring the Red Line to fruition, connecting to P&R commuters was NOT a significant function of the Red Line. It was intended to very much be a local urban transit asset for people living / working / playing who were already in the Main Street Corridor and/or envisioned to do so in the future. You wouldn't believe how dense the corridor was expected to become by these folks in pretty short order after the Red Line would begin operation (dense merging of TMC with Downtown). It was really about a vision for Main Street more than anything. Of course the workers who commuted in would be able to take advantage of it once their P&R bus dropped them off, but that wasn't the core purpose.
I have heard you say this before and it’s not that I don’t believe (I do believe you), it’s just that I don’t believe that’s where the story starts and finishes. The Uptown officials aren’t the only party involved. From what I have looked into, these projects have stemmed for a long time. Perhaps for them that’s the core reason for the project within their role but that’s just them, and I still think connecting to downtown via transit is atleast AS important to them. That project has been a METRO project before it broke ground, and no it wasn’t a last mile mover within Uptown for METRO
Regardless of that, though, for the vast majority of Houstonians (the point that matters in the end), that will be the connection from Downtown, TMC, the universities, the sports stadiums etc to Uptown and to the Galleria.
Also, and similarly because I dialogued with many of the folks who worked to bring the Red Line to fruition, connecting to P&R commuters was NOT a significant function of the Red Line. It was intended to very much be a local urban transit asset for people living / working / playing who were already in the Main Street Corridor and/or envisioned to do so in the future. You wouldn't believe how dense the corridor was expected to become by these folks in pretty short order after the Red Line would begin operation (dense merging of TMC with Downtown). It was really about a vision for Main Street more than anything. Of course the workers who commuted in would be able to take advantage of it once their P&R bus dropped them off, but that wasn't the core purpose.
Well you're not the only one who knows people involved in the Metro projects. The initial intention of the Red Line was to connect 2/3 largest employment centers in Houston, with the hopes it'd be extended south to Sugar Land and north to IAH, while the other Inner Loop lines were constructed.
Of course there was hype about building up the corridor, but that hype was also based on the rest of the light rail lines being constructed. If the light rail plan had gone according to plan, there'd be 5 light rail lines in the Inner Loop (Red, University, Green, Purple/Inner Katy, Uptown). The Main Street vision was just downtown and midtown, and every city plans for it when constructing transit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag
I have heard you say this before and it’s not that I don’t believe (I do believe you), it’s just that I don’t believe that’s where the story starts and finishes. The Uptown officials aren’t the only party involved. From what I have looked into, these projects have stemmed for a long time. Perhaps for them that’s the core reason for the project within their role but that’s just them, and I still think connecting to downtown via transit is atleast AS important to them. That project has been a METRO project before it broke ground, and no it wasn’t a last mile mover within Uptown for METRO
Regardless of that, though, for the vast majority of Houstonians (the point that matters in the end), that will be the connection from Downtown, TMC, the universities, the sports stadiums etc to Uptown and to the Galleria.
You're correct. These projects have been around for almost two decades at this point. The Uptown Line was never intended to be just a P&R shuttle. the Uptown MGMT may sell it as such now behind closed doors, but that's because they built it as essentially a vanity project due to roadblocks Metro kept facing. The Uptown MGMT would much rather have the Uptown BRT be light rail and connect to a larger system.
I have heard you say this before and it’s not that I don’t believe (I do believe you), it’s just that I don’t believe that’s where the story starts and finishes. The Uptown officials aren’t the only party involved. From what I have looked into, these projects have stemmed for a long time. Perhaps for them that’s the core reason for the project within their role but that’s just them, and I still think connecting to downtown via transit is atleast AS important to them. That project has been a METRO project before it broke ground, and no it wasn’t a last mile mover within Uptown for METRO
Regardless of that, though, for the vast majority of Houstonians (the point that matters in the end), that will be the connection from Downtown, TMC, the universities, the sports stadiums etc to Uptown and to the Galleria.
I don't disagree with you. You have to understand that the office buildings in Uptown had traditionally been by far the biggest taxpayers there (this is probably changing with the high-rise residential coming in), so it was their perception that mattered most in that community.
Also, the Silver Line wasn't actually a METRO capital project - it was primarily a project of the Uptown District and, especially, the TIRZ. Also TxDOT for certain elements. They pretty much wouldn't let METRO drive the ship (or the bus, as it were) because they didn't trust them regarding capital projects planning and execution (they had been burned by METRO in the past...it's a long story). METRO would have to be the actual operator, but the community was OK with that - just not the capital project. Also, the Post Oak Boulevard rebuild was as critical an element as the BRT, because the community knew the Boulevard's design and function, such as it was, wasn't going to be good enough to really serve as a global-level example of a dense mixed-use walkable urban thoroughfare. Believe me that community has VERY high standards for design, so they wanted to be fully in charge.
That said, your point is valid - for most of the overall Houston community, it will be seen as a critical component of the high-capacity urban transit system, and that indeed is as important a role as a last-mile commuter piece.
Well you're not the only one who knows people involved in the Metro projects. The initial intention of the Red Line was to connect 2/3 largest employment centers in Houston, with the hopes it'd be extended south to Sugar Land and north to IAH, while the other Inner Loop lines were constructed.
Of course there was hype about building up the corridor, but that hype was also based on the rest of the light rail lines being constructed. If the light rail plan had gone according to plan, there'd be 5 light rail lines in the Inner Loop (Red, University, Green, Purple/Inner Katy, Uptown). The Main Street vision was just downtown and midtown, and every city plans for it when constructing transit.
No question folks hoped it would be part of a larger system, but the referendum for the additional lines hadn't happened, and such things had failed in the past (or been voted in and then never executed), so people were NOT counting on them happening any time in the near future. Remember, METRO and the Main Street community basically just went and did the Red Line on its own, with its own $ (no federal), no vote. The corridor vision had become the overwhelming reason because you couldn't let yourself hope that a larger system would ever happen (and it only just barely did at all, and without the University Line after METRO ran out of $).
I was in a meeting this morning where the METRO board chair (he is unexpectedly charismatic) referenced public meetings that were part of the METRONext plan development. At one meeting in Spring, hundreds of folks showed up because they heard that METRO would plan for local bus service in their area, and they were hopping mad. Another board member opened the meeting by saying "METRO will not do local bus service in your area," and the room's air temperature immediately dropped several degrees because 90% of the meeting attendees immediately left.
Let's just say the quiet part out loud - these suburbanites don't really think that criminals will arrive and depart to conduct their illicit activities on the bus. What they really are scared of is that folks whose income is too limited to afford a car or truck for every worker in their household will find their neighborhood as an acceptable place to live because there's local bus service. And if there's anything that motivates these suburbanites, it's their desire to maintain income segregation. Threaten to remove it (especially in their schools!), and man they go apes__t.
That's disgusting isn't it, and outright ignorant.
Also, and similarly because I dialogued with many of the folks who worked to bring the Red Line to fruition, connecting to P&R commuters was NOT a significant function of the Red Line. It was intended to very much be a local urban transit asset for people living / working / playing who were already in the Main Street Corridor and/or envisioned to do so in the future. You wouldn't believe how dense the corridor was expected to become by these folks in pretty short order after the Red Line would begin operation (dense merging of TMC with Downtown). It was really about a vision for Main Street more than anything. Of course the workers who commuted in would be able to take advantage of it once their P&R bus dropped them off, but that wasn't the core purpose.
Not having P&R for the red line is stifling its growth. I would use it much more with better P&R options.
You're correct. These projects have been around for almost two decades at this point. The Uptown Line was never intended to be just a P&R shuttle. the Uptown MGMT may sell it as such now behind closed doors, but that's because they built it as essentially a vanity project due to roadblocks Metro kept facing. The Uptown MGMT would much rather have the Uptown BRT be light rail and connect to a larger system.
Yes originally they did want it to be light rail, so changing to BRT was not something that happened easily. But the Uptown community realized that there was no way light rail would be financially feasible, for their line or even probably the east-west lines (and they were correct), so BRT it was.
You realize that probably the major reason that University Line (and you could also say the Uptown line) didn't happen the first time around is because METRO upgraded the Green and Purple lines to light rail from the original BRT plan, and there wasn't enough $ left to do University Line? So while you can complain about the interference from politicians, and rightfully so, METRO's board made a poor financial decision that led them to where they are now.
Of course, many will say that it's just unfair that the feds didn't give METRO the $ to do a whole citywide light rail (or even heavy rail) system back then, but those folks are silly. Cities shouldn't even get their funds from the feds anyway.
Also, pre-pandemic, the Red Line actually operated at close to capacity at times. In theory, light rail should have a lot of capacity, but METRO's lines are limited to 2-car trains max (because of station size), and trains can only get so close together.
There's massive P&R for the Red Line. It's at Fannin South and Smithlands. What, you want P&R in Midtown? Would you be willing to pay for parking?
I want P&R on the north side of downtown, and yes of course a reasonable parking fee is expected.
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