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Yes, the stats I posted above show DFW having a larger population than Houston metro in 1980. 1980 was also the first decadal census in which Dallas and Fort Worth were combined in to one metro area.
Yeah. I noticed that Jack and SanJac left the out.
This is my main issue with metro population studies. They're far too opinion based.
Also... Just some honesty, but if growth were simply about economic diversity, then why is Houston top 3 in metro population growth year after year? Economics of a place certainly factor into population growth but there's a lot more factors. Yes Houston's economy has diversified a lot but it isn't top 3 in Usa (while it is in population growth).
Yes, the stats I posted above show DFW having a larger population than Houston metro in 1980. 1980 was also the first decadal census in which Dallas and Fort Worth were combined in to one metro area.
Yes I read the stats, I know what you posted . I was asking for a source of the information , a link. Was it a Wikipedia article, US Census? A link to the source of the facts that you are quoting please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag
Yeah. I noticed that Jack and SanJac left the out.
This is my main issue with metro population studies. They're far too opinion based.
Also... Just some honesty, but if growth were simply about economic diversity, then why is Houston top 3 in metro population growth year after year? Economics of a place certainly factor into population growth but there's a lot more factors. Yes Houston's economy has diversified a lot but it isn't top 3 in Usa (while it is in population growth).
Sometimes putting all eggs into one basket really pays off, but most of the time it is better not only to have more eggs but also other baskets to put them in.
It's not just about economic diversity, in fact some combinations of economic diversity can lead an economy into stagnation whereas another economy is experiencing a gold rush like never before, but sooner or later the gold runs out and you have to rely more on your wits which equates to economic diversity in this metaphor.
Yeah. I noticed that Jack and SanJac left the out.
This is my main issue with metro population studies. They're far too opinion based.
Also... Just some honesty, but if growth were simply about economic diversity, then why is Houston top 3 in metro population growth year after year? Economics of a place certainly factor into population growth but there's a lot more factors. Yes Houston's economy has diversified a lot but it isn't top 3 in Usa (while it is in population growth).
Economic diversity is more about steadiness and resiliency than just growth. After all, Austin continues to have phenomenal growth, but it certainly doesn't have economic diversity. But, what happens if there's a tech crash? And beware of superficial economic diversity; Dallas seemed more diverse in the 1980s than Houston owing to its financial sector, but it quickly became obvious that those businesses were heavily dependent on the oil industry and Texas real estate. Dallas has since added a whole lot of industries since then that operate pretty independently of both of those other sectors.
Economic diversity is more about steadiness and resiliency than just growth. After all, Austin continues to have phenomenal growth, but it certainly doesn't have economic diversity. But, what happens if there's a tech crash? And beware of superficial economic diversity; Dallas seemed more diverse in the 1980s than Houston owing to its financial sector, but it quickly became obvious that those businesses were heavily dependent on the oil industry and Texas real estate. Dallas has since added a whole lot of industries since then that operate pretty independently of both of those other sectors.
Except that this isn’t what Jac and Jack said. What OilCapital said is true. The pair of Jacks confused faster growth with the “merger” spiking the population that year. Some of Houston’s larger growth years in that post were also due to counties merging into Greater Houston btw.
Superficial economic diversity. You’re over thinking. I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but you’re over emphasizing it and leaving other factors out. You do realize that the 1980s saw the biggest macroeconomic crash since the Great Depression no? Bigger than the financial crisis. Because Texas “wasn’t economically diverse”, it’s measured separately? That’s not how it works. I understand exactly what you’re getting at with superficial diversity. Say, for example, United’s airline hub at IAH having some health ties to the local oil sector. That doesn’t make it superficial. It just means that sector has a larger slice of the pie than the other. Btw, when I first came back to Houston in 2020, I interned in devops for a bank not that long ago. From what I heard, the software department doubled in respect to the oil crash years from roughly 1000 to 2K. It’s just not the same to compare 1980 to 2022. The work environment is entirely different.
There’s no over analyzing needed. Houston has consistently been top 3 in metro growth consistently for decades. The one exception was the year of Harvey. Not the 2014/15 oil crash. Chicago (a candidate for the most diverse economy in the country) was not. While I will agree that a diverse economy helps a region sustainably grow, it’s not the only factor, the biggest factor, and certainly not the dominant factor. So with the data at hand not coinciding with that rhetoric, either Houston’s economy is more diverse than advertised or growth isn’t as tied to economic diversity as claimed. Ima say it’s probably both but more of the latter.
I’m also not saying that the growth is good or bad or will continue. I’m just saying they the data doesn’t back up the claims.
Except that this isn’t what Jac and Jack said. What OilCapital said is true. The pair of Jacks confused faster growth with the “merger” spiking the population that year. Some of Houston’s larger growth years in that post were also due to counties merging into Greater Houston btw.
Superficial economic diversity. You’re over thinking. I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but you’re over emphasizing it and leaving other factors out. You do realize that the 1980s saw the biggest macroeconomic crash since the Great Depression no? Bigger than the financial crisis. Because Texas “wasn’t economically diverse”, it’s measured separately? That’s not how it works. I understand exactly what you’re getting at with superficial diversity. Say, for example, United’s airline hub at IAH having some health ties to the local oil sector. That doesn’t make it superficial. It just means that sector has a larger slice of the pie than the other. Btw, when I first came back to Houston in 2020, I interned in devops for a bank not that long ago. From what I heard, the software department doubled in respect to the oil crash years from roughly 1000 to 2K. It’s just not the same to compare 1980 to 2022. The work environment is entirely different.
There’s no over analyzing needed. Houston has consistently been top 3 in metro growth consistently for decades. The one exception was the year of Harvey. Not the 2014/15 oil crash. Chicago (a candidate for the most diverse economy in the country) was not. While I will agree that a diverse economy helps a region sustainably grow, it’s not the only factor, the biggest factor, and certainly not the dominant factor. So with the data at hand not coinciding with that rhetoric, either Houston’s economy is more diverse than advertised or growth isn’t as tied to economic diversity as claimed. Ima say it’s probably both but more of the latter.
I’m also not saying that the growth is good or bad or will continue. I’m just saying they the data doesn’t back up the claims.
My claim was that the Greater Houston economy fell behind in job growth because there was nothing to fall back on, and that's what economic diversity does for an economy, not that economic diversity in and of itself is a growth engine for any economy.
My other claim was that the last time Greater Houston was more populous than DFW was the 1980 census, which has not been disproven either.
My claim was that the Greater Houston economy fell behind in job growth because there was nothing to fall back on, and that's what economic diversity does for an economy, not that economic diversity in and of itself is a growth engine for any economy.
My other claim was that the last time Greater Houston was more populous than DFW was the 1980 census, which has not been disproven either.
Yes it has. FW wasn’t included in the DFW that you posted it was D without the FW. SO. It was disproven.
I visited briefly. I think some more zoning might help some. Houston felt a little..well-chaotic, in a weird way.
I know it's great for affordability and small business so if Houston like it that way- I for sure get it. But it was not as positive as a brief visitor.
But for real-I absolutely noticed the lack of zoning within the first 10 minutes of leaving the airport.
Yes it has. FW wasn’t included in the DFW that you posted it was D without the FW. SO. It was disproven.
You didn't read the NY Times article I posted that was linked to my source about DFW overtaking Greater Houston in the late 80's after all the name changes and additions that you guys noted. Proclamations of fact are not facts they're at best recollections.
If you or oilcapital would link some verifiable source, I am open to conceding a point.
But here we are discussing how Houston's lack of zoning has made it an exceptional case in a good way. So I guess I'll rephrase my questions by instead asking if you think that the lack of zoning will continue to be successful and eventually carry the city further than its peers (?). With zoning, Dallas-Fort Worth eclipsed the Houston area generations ago and I think they still have the brighter future. They wouldn't likely agree that the Houston model "should be copied".
Not sure what PS is trying to lump me in with. My only clarification was to the assertion in the post above that DFW "eclipsed the Houston area generations ago."
Best case DFW eclipsed Houston in the 1980 census. If you think that is "generations" ago well I don't know what to tell you. But zoning had nothing to do with it. That's laughable.
Except that this isn’t what Jac and Jack said. What OilCapital said is true. The pair of Jacks confused faster growth with the “merger” spiking the population that year. Some of Houston’s larger growth years in that post were also due to counties merging into Greater Houston btw.
Superficial economic diversity. You’re over thinking. I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but you’re over emphasizing it and leaving other factors out. You do realize that the 1980s saw the biggest macroeconomic crash since the Great Depression no? Bigger than the financial crisis. Because Texas “wasn’t economically diverse”, it’s measured separately? That’s not how it works. I understand exactly what you’re getting at with superficial diversity. Say, for example, United’s airline hub at IAH having some health ties to the local oil sector. That doesn’t make it superficial. It just means that sector has a larger slice of the pie than the other. Btw, when I first came back to Houston in 2020, I interned in devops for a bank not that long ago. From what I heard, the software department doubled in respect to the oil crash years from roughly 1000 to 2K. It’s just not the same to compare 1980 to 2022. The work environment is entirely different.
There’s no over analyzing needed. Houston has consistently been top 3 in metro growth consistently for decades. The one exception was the year of Harvey. Not the 2014/15 oil crash. Chicago (a candidate for the most diverse economy in the country) was not. While I will agree that a diverse economy helps a region sustainably grow, it’s not the only factor, the biggest factor, and certainly not the dominant factor. So with the data at hand not coinciding with that rhetoric, either Houston’s economy is more diverse than advertised or growth isn’t as tied to economic diversity as claimed. Ima say it’s probably both but more of the latter.
I’m also not saying that the growth is good or bad or will continue. I’m just saying they the data doesn’t back up the claims.
I'm not understanding the point of your response. I was only stating that economic diversity may provide other primary benefits besides growth, and it doesn't guarantee that. I wasn't responding to the Jacks. Really I was as much agreeing with you as offering another perspective on economic diversity.
I am not able to make heads or tails of your dissertation response.
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