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Old 09-04-2009, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
17,029 posts, read 30,932,502 times
Reputation: 16265

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I think its nice to have some corner store I can walk too. I have friends that Live in Sienna and they have one way into the development and one big grocery store I think, that they all drive too.

It does give a city some character when you can walk to church, and on your way home you can grab a coffee, pick up some liquor and pornography on the way.
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Old 09-05-2009, 11:54 AM
 
5 posts, read 16,807 times
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It no coincidence that Houston is the only major U.S. city without zoning, and also the ugliest. If you are against zoning, then you can't also be one of the people who get pissed when Houston is thought of as the ugliest city in the U.S. You have your choice, ugly city with no zoning or better looking city with reasonable limits on development and a well crafted plan for growth. You can't have both.
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Old 09-05-2009, 08:26 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,121,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRoll View Post
It no coincidence that Houston is the only major U.S. city without zoning, and also the ugliest. If you are against zoning, then you can't also be one of the people who get pissed when Houston is thought of as the ugliest city in the U.S. You have your choice, ugly city with no zoning or better looking city with reasonable limits on development and a well crafted plan for growth. You can't have both.
The ugliest? Man you should go to Phoenix, that place is ugly except for the pretty mountains.
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Old 09-05-2009, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
711 posts, read 1,856,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRoll View Post
It no coincidence that Houston is the only major U.S. city without zoning, and also the ugliest.
Uglier than Philadelphia or Detroit? I think not.
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Hell's Kitchen, NYC
2,271 posts, read 5,149,021 times
Reputation: 1613
While I love Manhattan, (I'm here visiting now) the way restaurants and stores are strewn seems equally haphazard, there is just simply more regard to local establishments and aesthetic appeal. So in terms of commercial convenience, I feel Houston ended up with an approximation of the same thing, though there are obviously more stores (and people) to every block in NYC and the density reflects that. In Houston, your options will be a little more spread out.

Last edited by theSUBlime; 09-06-2009 at 07:04 AM..
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:58 AM
 
5 posts, read 16,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randian View Post
Uglier than Philadelphia or Detroit? I think not.
Exactly. To find cities to even compare to Houston you have to look for two of the most economically depressed cities in America. Houston is thriving economically, there are jobs and money and people. Why shouldn't we also be a little better looking, with some sort of reasonable plan for development. That's all I'm saying. I have a love/hate relationship with the city.
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Old 09-06-2009, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
711 posts, read 1,856,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRoll View Post
Why shouldn't we also be a little better looking, with some sort of reasonable plan for development.
"Better looking" is a matter of opinion. I don't look at Memorial Park or Rice U and think "ugly". South of downtown is pretty nice too. What you can see form a freeway isn't pretty, but when did any city anywhere put its pretty areas next to a freeway? I rather like the fact that commercial districts are located near freeways.

San Francisco is planned to the Nth degree. It's got plenty of ugly (and aggressive street bums, if you've ever walked its streets). The Mission District, for one. Same goes for NYC.

Planning is a bad idea because it subjects development to politics. Planning doesn't get rid of ugly, it just lines the pockets of politicians and their cronies. It's a primary vector for the diseases of corruption and envy. Planning doesn't make the city better for its inhabitants, because in a planning regime developers aren't trying to satisfy the demands of their customers, they're trying to satisfy the planner. The central conceit of planning is that it's possible for a single person know what the public wants and needs. No central planner is smart enough and sufficiently well-informed to make that decision, because it's not possible for any human being to be that smart.
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Old 09-06-2009, 04:09 PM
 
Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,429 posts, read 14,846,008 times
Reputation: 3672
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRoll View Post
It no coincidence that Houston is the only major U.S. city without zoning, and also the ugliest.
Well, that's highly subjective, isn't it?
Anyway, I don't agree. Are many of the freeways ugly? Yes. Is the city as a whole ugly enough to be able to say something like you did? I don't think so at all.
Have you lived elsewhere in Texas? Even in the other major Texas cities that do have zoning, there are plenty of ugly areas. Believe me...
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Old 09-06-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: ✶✶✶✶
15,216 posts, read 30,566,366 times
Reputation: 10851
I don't think I've ever seen a freeway or freeway frontage that looked pretty, at least not in a natural sense.

Cities don't "put" nice areas near freeways because people who live in nice areas don't want to live near freeways. Nice areas go where people want to live, zoning or no zoning.
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
125 posts, read 312,383 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by randian View Post
"Better looking" is a matter of opinion. I don't look at Memorial Park or Rice U and think "ugly". South of downtown is pretty nice too. What you can see form a freeway isn't pretty, but when did any city anywhere put its pretty areas next to a freeway? I rather like the fact that commercial districts are located near freeways.

San Francisco is planned to the Nth degree. It's got plenty of ugly (and aggressive street bums, if you've ever walked its streets). The Mission District, for one. Same goes for NYC.

Planning is a bad idea because it subjects development to politics. Planning doesn't get rid of ugly, it just lines the pockets of politicians and their cronies. It's a primary vector for the diseases of corruption and envy. Planning doesn't make the city better for its inhabitants, because in a planning regime developers aren't trying to satisfy the demands of their customers, they're trying to satisfy the planner. The central conceit of planning is that it's possible for a single person know what the public wants and needs. No central planner is smart enough and sufficiently well-informed to make that decision, because it's not possible for any human being to be that smart.
I agree that every large city has it's share of ugly and pretty. I do think that it is a matter of finding the right balance between over and under planning. Planning done well is not too restrictive, encourages business, and is not done by one person but following rules / regs adopted through a democratic process. Bad planning can be way to burdensome but planning that is loose and non existent can cause a lot of problems too while it lines the pockets of a narrow set of interests.
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