How should public transport be done in Sugar Land? (Houston: how much, employment)

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by Poltracker

Having grown up there, I watched it happen. The apartments near my neighborhood were orginally very nice and housed working professionals (a lot of IAH workers and the like). In an over simplification when the busses came, more low income folks moved into those apartments and the problem began and expanded. They did not have to ride busses to rob folks. While the parents rode busses to work (maybe)

OK...."maybe?" Either they were or they weren't, and if they were driving, then where does the bus service enter into it? I've lived in plenty of low-income apartments that weren't on bus lines. Some of them were in places that didn't even have buses.

the teenage and unemployed element started preying on the neighborhoods around them. Te bus network gave them a foothold.

Teenagers and unemployed people drive too. And it works both ways. Imagine if inner city people were opposing this because they didn't want the petty crime from bored teenage kids. Not that they can't just as easily come drive up 59 or whatever.

Yes, the fact that busses were available also led to the construction of low income housing and conversion of units to low income housing when those were full and the neighborhood started the decline. The boom bust issues certainly contributed, but the busses had a lot to do with it too. It is still happening now if you look toward the 1960 corridor where the busses have expanded (Ella and the like). Sure folks on the outside can look at the situation and say the cause was such and such but for the folks that lived there and watched it happen, we know what started the problem. Comparing upper income neighborhoods like River Oaks to middle class neighborhoods (at the time) is not a fair comparison.

My dad lives on Ella but off Louetta rather than 1960, and I'm not unfamiliar with the area by any means. And who made a River Oaks/upper income neighborhood comparison? I did make a Pearland comparison, which is a lot closer to what 1960 used to be. For another, Missouri City not only resisted joining METRO but also passed ordinances regulating apartment development and still had crime.

[Vicman]

Originally Posted by jfre81

For another, Missouri City not only resisted joining METRO but also passed ordinances regulating apartment development and still had crime.

Now Missouri City is a part of METRO - As they say, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em : METRO About Us

As for Sugar Land zoning, which I referred to, you can see it here: " + theTitle + "

If METRO routes in Sugar Land were kept to the Sugar Land and Missouri City limits, I don't see how that would encourage creation of large apartment complexes.

Originally Posted by jfre81

And who made a River Oaks/upper income neighborhood comparison? I did make a Pearland comparison, which is a lot closer to what 1960 used to be. For another, Missouri City not only resisted joining METRO but also passed ordinances regulating apartment development and still had crime.

To be fair, I talked about how River Oaks, West U, Bellaire, and Memorial have METRO and yet they have low crime rates.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by predatorprey

Sugar land is heavily dependent on the 2% sales tax to finance their budget. Joining metro would add another 2% to that. That would not only hurt SGL growth, but stifle any new businesses that would join sgl.

More than you even imagine. State sales tax is 6.25% and the state caps additional taxes at 2% for a max total of 8.25%. So if SGL is already capped out and they were to join Metro (which requires 1%), the total rate cannot bump to 9.25% so the city will just lose that 1%.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Vicman

I think it's time for Sugar Land, Texas to get public transportation.

With Minute Maid being headquartered there, Schlumberger with significant offices there, and with other businesses moving in, Sugar Land is becoming a city of its own. For the convenience of its residents it needs public transportation.

On what do you base this conclusion? How many residents do not have access to private transportation? Do you have any stats showing a strong demand for public transit?

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by SilverWings

I vote for free limosine service for all SL residents.

It would be cheaper than rail.

[Vicman]

Originally Posted by DiverTodd62

On what do you base this conclusion? How many residents do not have access to private transportation? Do you have any stats showing a strong demand for public transit?

To answer your question about demand, in 2003 Fort Bend County leaders have mulled plans to establish a commuter rail project that would extend from Fort Bend County to the Texas Medical Center: Fort Bend County, Texas, Draws up Commuter Rail Plan. (06-OCT-03) Houston Chronicle (Houston, Texas) (via Knight-Ridder/Tribune Business News) (http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-9044560_ITM - broken link) (Hanson, Eric. "Fort Bend County, Texas, Draws up Commuter Rail Plan." - Houston Chronicle - October 6, 2003) - I would say this is an indicator of a significant demand for public transportation between Fort Bend County and central Houston.

In 2005 Fort Bend County created a "park and ride" service to some Houston employment centers with eight minibuses: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...o/5304824.html

You said: "How many residents do not have access to private transportation?" - Diver Todd, residents of what place?

Originally Posted by DiverTodd62

It would be cheaper than rail.

Which kind of rail? By which agency? Keep in mind that the initial step I proposed was a Park and Ride (BTW Park and Rides exist in western Harris County (near Katy) and Kingwood - Also the City of Katy is a METRO member) and possibly some local routes within Sugar Land.

Originally Posted by DiverTodd62

More than you even imagine. State sales tax is 6.25% and the state caps additional taxes at 2% for a max total of 8.25%. So if SGL is already capped out and they were to join Metro (which requires 1%), the total rate cannot bump to 9.25% so the city will just lose that 1%.

I was not aware of this taxing scenario. Does Sugar Land have plans to become more dependent on business property taxes? With the businesses moving into Sugar Land, is there a way for the city to change its taxing strategy so that becoming a METRO member would not significantly impact its revenues and so it could take advantage of increased commercial and business traffic into the city? How likely is the state to raise its sales taxing cap?

[Trae713]

Sugar Land should look to cities like Plano and see that public transit can definitely work.

[Vicman]

Originally Posted by Angel713

Sugar Land should look to cities like Plano and see that public transit can definitely work.

Yes, I on HAIF I heard Plano is very similar to Sugar Land. Plano is a Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) member and has light rail and buses.

[westhou]

Originally Posted by Angel713

Sugar Land should look to cities like Plano and see that public transit can definitely work.

I've noticed that about a few suburbs in the Dallas area the last time I was there. I was very impressed with their network of transit options. I believe Irving had public transit as well.

[Trae713]

Yeah. The only thing Dallas has above Houston as far as transit is light rail though. I wish there were more bus options in the Houston suburbs, though Houston's city limits are much larger than Dallas'.