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Maybe with those developers but not entirely. Mayors Williams is doing what he can to make it happen. The problem is the ACF property itself. As stated before, the guy who owns it just wants too much for it. Last I heard though, he was showing some interest in maybe even being a partner in the development process or at least that angle was being worked with him.
The map that was linked is awesome but for that to work the train would have to get closer to Marshall. Personally, I only commute from Barboursville to Marshall for work but I would consider using that train at least a few times per week just to save on gas.
1. Is there enough traffic out there to justify a line?
2. Can the population in that area support it?
3. Are there a lot of car-less people in both cities who could benefit from this?
1. Traffic can be bad, but it's nothing compared to some larger metro areas.
2. The density is there, but the overall population numbers don't seem to justify it, IMO.
3. Again, not enough. There's always quite a few, but this is a very car-centric region.
I'd love to see something connecting the cities, but I don't think there's a large enough population base. I'd rather push for intracity streetcars, as Huntington apparently was the second American city with them originally.
Initially, I would push for a continuous streetcar loop between 3rd and 5th Avenues and 8th and 20th Streets. I would also add a less frequent route down 8th St to 8th Ave (the tracks are still on 8th St) to Hal Greer, down to C-H, and back up Hal Greer to Marshall. Expansion from there would include routes down to St. Mary's to the East and the old Central City.
Charleston would have one initially running from the near West Side business district and Women & Children's to the Mall and downtown core, Clay Center/APP, East End, and Capitol/Laidley Field. Expansion to the east would include a new bridge (with a long-overdue pedestrian element) from the Capitol to UC and Memorial, extending to at least some part of Kanawha City, maybe all the way down to the Kanawha Mall/Plaza. A western extension would include more of the West Side, Patrick Street Plaza, with the line ending in South Charleston.
I don't want to rain on the guy's parade, but there is no way there is enough population in that corridor to support a light rail system. They already have a heavily subsidized bus making that run, and it isn't exactly bursting at the seams with passengers. Connecting two 50,000 towns 50 miles apart with such a project is a boondoggle waiting to happen, even if you have some other small towns in between.
The state would be a whole lot better served if they would connect the state capital with any other place in the state that isn't already connected to it. We have the only state capital in the country that is essentially isolated from most of the state, seemingly on purpose.
Moderator cut: maintaining civility This wouldn't "connect two 50,000 towns," as you say, but connect a 365,415 metro area (Huntington) with a 240,000 metro area (Charleston).
And what in god's name do you mean by the "capital city is isolated"? Charleston rests in the population center of the state. Over 600,000 residents in the Huntington/Charleston corridor alone. No other area of the state even comes close to that population density.
Your Morgantown bias is so strong that you believe the economic and cultural center of the state lies 2 miles south of the PA line in a town completely propped up by WV taxpayers. Otherwise it's Buckhannon.
Again, why do you post on the Huntington forum? Moderator cut: "facts?" not in evidence
Last edited by mensaguy; 08-01-2014 at 10:41 AM..
Reason: keeping the peace
Moderator cut: maintaining civility This wouldn't "connect two 50,000 towns," as you say, but connect a 365,415 metro area (Huntington) with a 240,000 metro area (Charleston).
And what in god's name do you mean by the "capital city is isolated"? Charleston rests in the population center of the state. Over 600,000 residents in the Huntington/Charleston corridor alone. No other area of the state even comes close to that population density.
Your Morgantown bias is so strong that you believe the economic and cultural center of the state lies 2 miles south of the PA line in a town completely propped up by WV taxpayers. Otherwise it's Buckhannon.
Again, why do you post on the Huntington forum? Moderator cut: "facts?" not in evidence .
Moderator cut: cut However, trying to sort out your opinion from your negativity and caustic personal insults my response is this. I don't believe there is sufficient population base there to support such a system. The 600,000 residents you are talking about are spread out between Montgomery, West Virginia and Greenup, Kentucky ... an area of over 100 miles, that lacks a significant population core. That is not intended as being anything negative, it's just an observation. Such systems don't "run through" loosely connected population clusters like that, they connect "outlying areas" to a primary central base. I lived for many years in the New York City area and used mass transit all of that time, so in that sense I do have an "idea what (I'm) talking about. You could draw a circle with a 100 mile radius around any city in our state and the only places with sufficient population to support such a system would be in the north and east. For example, you would find that you have 2.5 million people in such an area here in Morgantown and nearly 4 million people in Martinsburg. Check it out yourself if you don't want to believe me.
The reason I'm commenting is such systems are hugely expensive to construct and even more expensive to maintain. In the NYC area, for example, there were always issues with how much the fare should be just to support maintenance and public outcries whenever they felt they needed to raise it because they never seemed to have enough money, even though just one of the many NYC lines (that wouldn't even cover the distance you are talking about) the Harlem Line of Metro North Commuter Railroad, was intensely utilized with tens of thousands of passengers every day. The Harlem Line runs from New York City to just north of Brewster . Another reason is my observation that there is a state subsidized commuter bus that runs from Huntington to Charleston in place now that has fewer than 50 passengers using it round trip every day. Even if you tripled the passenger base there, it wouldn't even make a dent in the costs needed to support a passenger rail line of that magnitude.
I'm not going to use any references to your knowledge base, I'll simply ask you for some realistic examples that support the notion that you know what you're talking about. That sort of thing is permitted here, and Moderator cut: avoiding skirmishes perhaps we can have an intelligent discussion? I am not aware of any large surpluss of funds in any of the government entities along the route you suggest is plausible that could approach the funding needed to support such an endeavor. If you're aware of such accumulated sums of money, would you please point that out?
I have pointed out several times to you that when we discuss subjects here on this forum, we try to keep to the topics. Moderator cut: not necessary to the topic
Last edited by mensaguy; 08-01-2014 at 10:46 AM..
Reason: maintaining the peace
So you think because Morgantown is 80 miles from Pittsburgh it gets to claim Pittsburgh's population? And Martinsburg gets to claim DC's population? Morgantown doesn't even fall in Pittsburgh's MSA. So how would a commuter rail system from a city of 25k to Charleston be more beneficial than from Huntington to Charleston, where most of the infrastructure is already in place? That's your argument, after all, that it should go from Charleston north rather than Charleston west. No one from that hilarious 2.5 million population figure you gave would use a rail system between Charleston and Morgantown.
Hell, I don't even support commuter rail between Huntington and Charleston. It's easier to drive. I'm just here to challenge your needless Huntington-bashing and misrepresentation of the facts, which is all you do.
So you think because Morgantown is 80 miles from Pittsburgh it gets to claim Pittsburgh's population? And Martinsburg gets to claim DC's population? Morgantown doesn't even fall in Pittsburgh's MSA. So how would a commuter rail system from a city of 25k to Charleston be more beneficial than from Huntington to Charleston, where most of the infrastructure is already in place? That's your argument, after all, that it should go from Charleston north rather than Charleston west. No one from that hilarious 2.5 million population figure you gave would use a rail system between Charleston and Morgantown.
Hell, I don't even support commuter rail between Huntington and Charleston. It's easier to drive. I'm just here to challenge your needless Huntington-bashing and misrepresentation of the facts, which is all you do.
That's not what I am saying at all. I am saying that Montgomery doesn't get to claim Greenup's population but that isn't the real point of what I'm trying to point out. I'm saying that (as you are pointing out) the concept is not financially feasible. I am not bashing anybody. You have been bashing me (for whatever reason) and using nasty terms to refer to my city (again for whatever reason), but the thread is not about me or about Morgantown, and even if it were you shouldn't be using that sort of terminology. Please don't hijack threads and try to make them about me or anything else. I suggest you stick to the topic. Disagreeing with something and providing reasons is not bashing anybody. It is common sense discussion, even if somebody doesn't agree with it. I really don't post all that much of these particular threads, but sometimes I feel it is helpful to inject a different perspective. That sure doesn't mean I have all the answers and that you can't counter that perspective. I do a lot of posting on the Morgantown thread, and I really hope that we are not so thin skinned there that we can't have divergent views and discuss them (without resorting to using nasty names or personal insults). In those relatively few instances when I do post here I try to keep it positive and on the topic at hand. Posters here who sometimes post on the Morgantown board basically do the same.
Like you seem to be saying, that area probably wouldn't support such a system. In my view it is because there are too few people, spread over too wide of an area, without a single focus of people in the middle. Pittsburgh and DC/Baltimore have such focuses, and that is why it works in those places and in the outlying areas there. Even then, it is not without detractions such as the enormous costs involved. It was an endless issue in the northern NYC suburbs when I lived there.
I don't think it would be a bad idea and I think if done right, it could have a decent ridership but it's just not financially feasible. Like other people have said, there are more pressing projects that need to be completed first
I personally think the system would work, but right now isn't the best timing. We have the population, along the route, but not the growth levels that would justify it. Both Charleston and Huntington need to start showing that they are growing again (which both are in rebound mode now), before we should consider a commuter rail. Putnam County's growth allow is enough to get the conversation started, but lets get population growth in Barboursville, South Charleston, Saint Albans, etc... first, then we can talk about light rail. The best part is, we already have the tracks in place, we just need a few stations in the suburbs and a train or two to make the run.
Another thought is, one day the state will wise up and see the need for a combined regional airport for the two cities. Its kind of ridiculous now that we have two airports for two cities so close, and both try to steal the others business. One airport between the two (maybe connected to by the commuter rail) would do wonders for the economy. More flights, more connections, a nicer gateway into our state by air travel. The airport would draw from all over the state, Kentucky and Ohio as well!
What really needs to happen is more work between the two cities and Putnam county. I am all for friendly competition because that will motivate both cities to grow in numbers and in business. But smart growth is a need for the area, along with the involvement of Putnam County because they obviously are an important part of both cities interests! Public transportation between the two cities needs to work together and plan strategic routes and services. Police, Fire, and EMS also need to be on the same page.
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