More Education Issues in Idaho (Boise, Hope: 2013, transfer, public school)
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It's a good start, but we are still below 2009 funding levels, which were sufficient enough to keep our best teachers and administrators in state. For the past 5 years, Idaho's best have left for better paying positions elsewhere, often in neighboring Wyoming, which has left our schools full of novice teachers who are just beginning to teach.
Hopefully, the hemmorage will begin to slow with this extra funding, but these days, most beginning teachers are young females who often leave the profession after marriage and/or motherhood. While they may be very good at their jobs, I think that the experienced teachers are better at inspiring their kids to go on and seek higher education.
Teaching changes generationally; when I was in high school, I benefitted a lot from having several teachers who had been on the job for 20 years or more, all nearing retirement. These gentlemen and ladies all knew their stuff well. More importantly, when I was a senior, I learned which Idaho colleges had the best teachers for my intended major in them. Back then, a teacher knew most of the others at all levels of education here.
By the time I returned back to college after a hitch in the Navy, all my old high school teachers were retired and another generation had taken their places. By the time my kids were in high school, a 3rd generation was teaching them. I think that just as it is in other professions, education and it's attendant skills can easily go up or down from generation to generation, but over-riding all, experience counts the most of all.
I'm usually skeptical of the emotional gloom and doom I often see posted about Idaho education, so I decided to dig up some hard data on the subject, for anyone interested. These statistics come from the book 50 State Comparisons 2014, published by the Taxpayers Network of Green Bay, WI. It's an interesting book, and free to peruse online. Lots of data on economics, demographics, taxes, etc.
Salaries:
Idaho's average public school teacher salary is $49,734 , rank #33. The median state, Indiana, is $51,456. The high state is NY at $75,279, while the low state is South Dakota at $39,580. (Idaho's rank was #41 in 2009 and #32 in 2013.)
The book's teacher salary data comes from NEA's database. The news article posted earlier (which ranked Idaho near the bottom of US states) also claimed to use NEA data. I don't know why the rankings here differ so much from that article, but I'll leave it to the reader to decide which is the better source, a book that's been published annually for many years, or an off-hand news report.
Nationally, ID doesn't look bad. The average salary is $1.7k away from the median state, Indiana.
Average teacher salaries in surrounding states: WA=$54k, OR=$59k, NV=$56k, UT=$49k, WY=$58k, MT=$50k.
So the reports of teachers leaving Idaho for higher pay in neighboring states are supported by these figures. Idaho's teacher pay seems to be more a regional issue than a national one. Of course, the figures are not adjusted for cost of living. Idaho doesn't have a Seattle or Portland to inflate their numbers. And it turns out that the most comparable neighbor demographically, Montana, has about the same average teacher salary. Draw your own conclusions on whether Idaho has a crisis on its hands.
Test Scores:
Average ACT score of tested Idaho HS grads: 22.1, rank #16, tied w/Iowa & Wisconsin. Montana is the median state at 21.3 . The high state is Mass. at 24.1, low state is North Carolina at 18.7.
This looks pretty good, but wait, the news gets even better. A respectably large percentage (49%) of Idaho grads took the test. That is higher than any state that ranked higher, excepting Minnesota (74%). In #1 Mass. for example, only 22% took the test; #4 Maine, only 8%. In other words, the figures for those other 14 higher-ranked states most likely reflect only students who took the test to qualify for admission to out-of-state institutions. So Idaho comes out looking mighty good here.
So in summary, while there is always room for improvement, I don't see the educational "crisis" that others are trumpeting. I have a kid in middle school and do not have any concerns about moving him into Idaho schools from what I'm seeing.
Every time I hear about how Idaho spends so little on education, I think that from what I see Idaho does a really fantastic job in bang-for-the-buck producing a strong result for the dollar. Paying a teacher $2k a year more doesn't make them a better teacher, and won't likely entice them to stay in Idaho versus moving out of state. Decreasing class size is a much more potent boost to student learning. So is letting upper secondary students have a much greater degree of control over their educational path (Finland comes to mind here). And Finland spends 25% less per pupil on average than the USA. Dollars spent per pupil are not nearly the "fix" people think they will be, IMO.
I'm always hugely skeptical about standardized middle school "grade level" test scores. As a homeschooler, my kids at times were under grade level in one subject and three to four grade levels ahead in others (we participated in CA state testing before leaving for Idaho).
Even graduating high school and going on to college, on the SAT my kids were mostly in the 98th to 99th percentile in English, while only in the 85th to 90th percentile on math. EVERY kid will have their strengths and weaknesses through their time in school, which is why I am not a fan of standardized tests.
But I see a problem in the thought process of quite a lot of people in northern Idaho. It's the mindset of "I'm a blue collar worker of medium skill, and my kid isn't a rocket scientist, so why should they seek higher education?". We've even heard people say, "my kid is just going to grow up and be a worker bee"...like that means they are done learning anything at 18. Interesting, I don't think more education funding from the state is going to change that. In fact, I don't know exactly how you fix that problem completely at the family level, beyond challenging and inspiring students to push themselves to excel in ways they did NOT expect and in ways their parents may very well not be able to imagine.
It's one reason why I think MOST students need to go on to higher education. By higher education, I don't just mean college (which for us in NID is North Idaho College and/or University of Idaho). I mean some form of professional skill and exposure to becoming more well-written, well-spoken, with a higher level of critical thinking and problem solving. If a trade school provides those elements, then great. So while I agree with Mike Rowe about "college/university" education being overrated, I don't completely agree with him. I have read enough about entrepreneurs and inventors and business owners and people who help propel the "engine of American commerce" to know that even a degree in a "useless major" (according to STEM hard core supporters) is a very good thing for most people.
I also see educating females devalued by some families in northern Idaho. But we have a saying in homeschooling, "Educate a son and you've educated a worker. Educate a daughter and you educate a family." I'm a big believer in women (even ones planning on working only until they start a family) getting a solid post-secondary education. And their children are more likely to view upper level education with value.
So I agree with you on the "crisis" being overstated as the "education establishment" tries to increase funding. But I also see a problem with our "status quo" in northern Idaho of how many HS graduates fail to gain education and/or a viable professional skill and wind up in menial jobs.
If you dispute the figures, you can simply call the Idaho Statesman, Boise Public Radio, Melissa Davlin, Betsy Russell, Kevin Richart at the Idaho Education News, or anyone at the Idaho Education Association.
Quite frankly, I believe and trust them over some off hand research you conducted over an afternoon from some random third party source.
If you dispute the figures, you can simply call the Idaho Statesman, Boise Public Radio, Melissa Davlin, Betsy Russell, Kevin Richart at the Idaho Education News, or anyone at the Idaho Education Association.
Quite frankly, I believe and trust them over some off hand research you conducted over an afternoon from some random third party source.
What? "My third party sources are better than your third party sources?" That's your argument?
What? "My third party sources are better than your third party sources?" That's your argument?
My third party sources are actually here in the state, working on these issues every single day. Many of them are reporters who are speaking with the legislators, the DOE, the teachers unions, the education associations, et al.
As Sage pointed out in another thread, there is apparently a difference between news reporting and editorials; the veracity of the information matters. The sourcing matters. The accuracy matters.
Moreover, we're talking about the education association itself, the organizations that compile and submit the data.
So yeah, my sources, and the some of the other sources offered in this thread, are better than some 50 State Comparisons book. Absolutely and without a doubt.
My third party sources are actually here in the state, working on these issues every single day. Many of them are reporters who are speaking with the legislators, the DOE, the teachers unions, the education associations, et al.
As Sage pointed out in another thread, there is apparently a difference between news reporting and editorials; the veracity of the information matters. The sourcing matters. The accuracy matters.
Moreover, we're talking about the education association itself, the organizations that compile and submit the data.
So yeah, my sources, and the some of the other sources offered in this thread, are better than some 50 State Comparisons book. Absolutely and without a doubt.
In other words, your "3rd party source" is a paid mouthpiece for the teacher's unions?
I was actually wondering when some of you would start going down this road. I love when people try to find the most obscure sources to "debunk" statistics they don't like.
Hey Toyman... since when are the reporters paid mouthpieces for the teacher's unions. Since when are the legislators, most of whom have crippled education funding, paid mouthpieces for the teacher's unions?
Let me ask this: were you there are the hearings at the Capitol for the budget presentations this year (or the prior few years)? Did you listen to all of the testimony? I was, and I did, and it conforms with the stats I've posted, and the reports you can read in the media, and not this other source posted.
I think I will let Sage speak on my behalf on political issues such as this. He does a much better job and avoids the gutter comments like the ones he appropriately deleted of mine earlier in the thread.
More money doesn't equate to better education folks...at least not proportionally for sure. Cost of living in ID is no doubt lower than many of the states that pay teachers more so any comparisons should be done with that in mind.
VandalsLOL, do we now have your permission to talk about broader education in this thread as it seems titled, or must we still stick to the website boondoggle topic you posted about initially?
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