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You bought a place next to an established gravel pit. What did you expect the future use of that neighboring property to be???... It's a gravel pit. I would not condemn an entire county's land management practices because they allowed a gravel pit to run... although it does sound like their noise policy/enforcement could use some work.
What some people may not realize is that when buying that nice secluded place at the end of the road ... you know the one with the thousands of acres of federal or state land all around it... there is usualy the possibility of mineral extraction on those lands ... when researching a place to buy, things like an area's history of mining or say, gravel pit digging would be good to know prior to any purchase.
You bought a place next to an established gravel pit. What did you expect the future use of that neighboring property to be???... It's a gravel pit. I would not condemn an entire county's land management practices because they allowed a gravel pit to run... although it does sound like their noise policy/enforcement could use some work.
What some people may not realize is that when buying that nice secluded place at the end of the road ... you know the one with the thousands of acres of federal or state land all around it... there is usualy the possibility of mineral extraction on those lands ... when researching a place to buy, things like an area's history of mining or say, gravel pit digging would be good to know prior to any purchase.
First off, this is a subdivision which was approved by the Idaho County Commissioners for an added tax base for the county. They should not have allowed a subdivision next to a so called PIT. We are three retired couples who moved here for the peace and quiet and clean air. When that crusher started up (with no notice to us at all) every single right....both personal and property..... went away. That "pit" had been inactive for about 15+ years. If it was handled the same as shooting ranges in Idaho, it would have been deemed inactive and off limits. Idaho County is supposed to be well known for it's property rights. Well, I asked what happened to our property rights and we got not one answer....why? because they know that we were completely stripped of the right to sit on our porch, work in our garden, etc, etc. The sound was horrible on our porch and deck.....about 100 db. That, my dear folks, is harmful to our health. What one person does with their property should not interfere with the property rights of their neighbors....PERIOD! They COULD have done the crushing on the other side of the hill.......where only that property owner would have been affected. They did it this way to preserve their own property values and rights. We were screwed by the Commissioners.
Last edited by bammie21; 08-29-2009 at 04:20 AM..
Reason: clarify a point
I will switch with you. That would never happen here. Only drawback is they will charge you 10 thousand dollars a year taxes. Im getting taxed out of here. I would rather have some noise for a few weeks that have too many bloody politicians and too much goverment suckin the life out of me
You want to buy our place? Yes, we are selling whenever we get what we want out of it. I am not staying somewhere where there are no protections for the citizens. There should either be a pit that was reactivated after over 15 years OR the county approved subdivision we settled in.... NOT BOTH. We have lost every property right we are due and also every personal right to basic needs of life (such as sleep). Yes, the property taxes are fairly cheap, but we have decided it would be better to pay a bit more and retain our rights. One persons property rights should never interfere with their neighbor's property rights or quality of life. If you think this is ok, then let me know......you might be interested in buying our place I am not reducing the price because of this; we won't sell til we get what it is worth....or would be without the county allowing this torture. You think that 100+ db of noise is acceptable? You ever try to sleep with a freight train travelling 60 mph about 50' from your bedroom? This noise went on from an average of 4:30 a.m. until 1 a.m. Sometimes they ran it 24 hr a day.
Knife River attempted the same up here in Bonner County...squeezed past the Commissioners (who approved the CUP without even looking at it) and were very close to putting in a gravel AND asphalt plant...right on a hillside, with 50+ trucks per day coming out on a steep descending arc turn.
Fortunately a local got ahold of the news and was able to alert everyone in the area. We all got together, made visits to planning board meetings, and were able to shut him down. The pipeline runs through the area, THEY were not notified. Idaho Dept of Transportation was not notified either, THEY wanted impact planning studies because of the trucks.
When it was all said and done, you had to say, "Hey man, NICE TRY" but if we hadn't gotten together, it would have gone through and then there would have been nothing we could have done to stop it (except move).
No Cooperation From Commissioners- Corruption Abounds In Idaho County
We did contact the Idaho County Commissioners....going to several meetings. But they refused to help us. We did not know this was going in until they began operating late on that Feb day. I went to work and they moved in and set up during the day. Then ran for 20-24 hr a day for 10 weeks. Knife River sucks and takes advantage of this county's lack of laws.
In Idaho County, Idaho, there are no laws to protect the citizens from this kind of invasion. The environmental issues alone should have shut this down if FARR (the tribal section of the EPA) had done their jobs correctly. The dust and noise were unbearable. In this case, the crushing was supposed to go 28 days and ended up being 56 days ......due to contract "amendments" by the wonderful ITD....and not for the HWY 12 project involved. The aggregate materials are now being sold locally at premium prices.
I hope this problem has gone away for you. Sorry you had to go through this.
That being said, please do not inflict property and zoning laws on the rest of Idaho County residents. That's the main reason my family moved here in the first place. We had corrupt politicians on the other end of the spectrum pulling shenanigans and passing idiotic regulations and taxing us out of house and home to pay for them. Many of us feel that the lack of government control is a GOOD THING. When we have neighbor problems we like to work them out like good old boy farmers and not involve lawyers and politicians if at all possible.
Trying to build anything in Ada county was an exercise in frustration for us old farmer types. They won't let you dig a hole in your back yard without paying hundreds of dollars for a permit. When we moved up to Idaho county we did have to have a septic permit, and they came out and looked at our septic system to make sure the drain field was big enough. Having had septic problems in the past, we doubled the size of it anyway so that wasn't a problem with us. After that we could build anything we wanted any way we wanted, and we didn't have to pay inspectors megabucks to come out and tell us stories about how one little nail hole between the garage and the house was likely to burn the entire house down.
You are correct, nobody should destroy another residen'ts quality of life. Especially not the government. Years ago they told the story of the county meeting where the bigwigs from the big city came up and were trying to convince Idaho County it was a good idea to implement all sorts of zoning laws. The story goes that Grandpa John stood up and made a speech about how we didn't need no stinkin' zoning laws, and we didn't need to stinkin' lobbyist from the big cities coming up here to tell us how to live our lives. In the process he pulled out his pistol and waved it around a bit. The city boy hollered, "Somebody get the sheriff!" The response? "He IS the Sheriff!" I don't know how true the story is, but a lot of us can relate.
You are newcomers. Maybe you have worked for 40 years and now deserve to be able to live your life like you want. But you really don't have the right to change how we existing residents live our lives. We have had an awful lot of outsiders and newcomers coming in, and when they don't like things here they complain and sue and try to get things changed. Why do your rights outrank the rights of the people who were here before you? Can you imagine how I feel, having lived here for decades, when uppity rich people from California buy up the land, build a huge house, move in, and then try to pass zoning laws because they don't like how my barn looks? Sorry I don't make enough money to have my barn painted every year, but I was here first. I expect the guys running the rock crusher are used to being able to crush rock any time they want. How do they feel having you guys move in and change how they have always done things?
Luckily, these sorts of conflicts are few enough that most of us can work them out (or wait them out) without resorting to lawsuits and getting too many politicians involved. It really is an unfortunate thing.
Well those same zoning rights also protect the people that have bought a little land and built their retirement homes from having some one come in and develop a huge subdivision right in their back yards with out some controls on what goes on there. Or a junk yard or sewer plant or gravel pit. Midvale is a great place to live and the people are working very hard to keep it that way.
Chris
PS Any one that recommends their children skate board down Whitebird hill is not giving good advice in my book.
It does seem true that the more government gets involved in anything the less liberty we all end up with, however, as this situation illustrates, there is a need for a very limited government regulation. I do stress limited. It is the job of the citizens to make sure that our officials are making common sense laws/ordinances of necessity with our constitutional rights at the forefront of every decision. Most of us are not doing enough to watch-dog our elected officials. We all get so busy with day to day life, I am guilty of this as well (I am politically proactive but I know that I could do more and I have been making efforts to do so), that we are not as diligent as we should be. When thinking of the political apathy, ignorance or the "I don't care until it happens to me attitude" of many Americans I have come to believe that we get the government that we deserve. Fortunately, from what I have observed since our financial meltdown from listening to people talk and from what I am reading etc, there is an awakening happening because people are finally deciding that they want their country back. The attraction to Idaho, to many of us more conservative/libertarian/constitutional people who are considering relocating, is from the perception that it has many of the characteristics of what America used to be (not perfect of course) not to mention the gorgeous landscape. I live in a state where there are too many zoning restrictions and people do end up feeling harassed rather than protected. My father sits on the zoning appeals board in our town and has told me countless stories of conflicts he has had with members of his own board just so common sense and fairness can prevail. Sadly, according to his experience more all too often people who are elected think their IQ increased by 30 points and become condescending miniature tyrants. I do want to give credit to those outstanding people that serve in office who are not corrupt and/or elitist (like my dad) and who our saving grace by standing up against those aforementioned bureaucrats when ever they can. It sounds like you have run into some ethically challenged politicians but it also sounds like you are taking the appropriate steps to be "heard". I am very glad that you posted this thread, it has been very valuable to me and my Idaho relocation research. I wish you continued progress in your battle.
Well, Bammie21, I looked at the links you posted and I think you're doing a good thing. The word should get out. Idaho County commissioners don't feel like it is their job to make land zoning or property rights laws. Or make sure people don't build on a flood plain. Or force your neighbors to clean up their ugly junk collections or overgrown weeds. Or fix your subdivision's sub-standard bridge. Or tell your neighbor he can't crush rock in his gravel pit in the middle of the night. They feel that "In Idaho County we have more freedoms than anybody else and I want to leave those in place..." Many of the Idaho County residents feel the same way. That would be how those commissioners got elected.
Anyone who has a problem with this should definitely not move to Idaho County. They would probably, like you, hate it there. It will be better all around if they look elsewhere. There are many other places they might like better. I understand Midvale is a nice little place, and there are lots of nice zoning laws there. Or, if it is a really big issue, they could try Ada County. There, there are excellent public nuisance regulations as well. If they have neighbors with weeds more than a foot and a half tall in their back yards, or more than two non-registered vehicles parked there, a simple complaint is all that is needed and the county officials will send them a nice little letter. If the neighbors don't take care of the problem right away, the county will take care of it for them. And send the bill to the neighbors. Anonymity is guaranteed.
Or, they could try another state. I understand most places in Oregon have pretty strict zoning laws. That might be an even better option.
PS @ shades_of_idaho: You're probably right about skateboarding down White Bird Hill. I don't know anybody that has been crazy enough to actually try it. But don't tell me it didn't cross your mind!
I live in Oregon and want to move where there are less laws and permits required. I'm sick to death of all the zoning laws and permits required to do anything.... Need any welders in White Bird????
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You want our noise?????
I am not reducing the price because of this; we won't sell til we get what it is worth....or would be without the county allowing this torture. You think that 100+ db of noise is acceptable? You ever try to sleep with a freight train travelling 60 mph about 50' from your bedroom? This noise went on from an average of 4:30 a.m. until 1 a.m. Sometimes they ran it 24 hr a day.
