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I only pray that folks don't come into NID and try to change things or use their "individualism" to promote new progressive ideas.................God is great, beer is good...............and people are crazy...........
I only pray that folks don't come into NID and try to change things or use their "individualism" to promote new progressive ideas.................God is great, beer is good...............and people are crazy...........
NID is made up of and wonderful because of all kinds of people: the artsy folks, the retirees, the expats from SoCAL, the people who have lived here for generations, the ranchers, the loggers, the ski bums, etc. It's always annoying when people move here and want to shut the door behind them to people who don't think exactly as they do. Nothing wrong with new ideas, as long as they are good ones and serve the people of the area well.
Last edited by mistyriver; 01-30-2014 at 10:58 AM..
As a critically thinking individualist I try to avoid living in places dominated by people who are inherent followers, people who move somewhere because it ranks high on the cool scale. Unfortunately, I’ve found a disturbing percentage of people moving to N. Idaho are doing so “because it’s Idaho,” and not because it offers an anything it's neighboring states don't.
I really doubt that most people who are moving to Idaho are doing so without having given it enough thought to develop deeper reasons than "it ranks high on the cool scale," or "because it's Idaho." Although there are some similarities with neighboring states, there are also very real differences between eastern Washington, north Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. We considered all those possibilities, and I can give you clear reasons why we ruled out the other choices when we decided to move to Idaho. They may not be reasons that resonate with you, but they did with us, and the "Idaho cool factor" was not part of our decision process.
Another note on the cool factor: I find that most people only have the vaguest notions of where I'm talking about when I tell them we are moving to north Idaho. As I describe where we are going I often get the reaction "Oh, you're way up there." Well, yeah, I said north Idaho, where else did you think I was talking about?
Some people have heard of a place called Coeur d'Alene, but I very rarely run across anybody who has even heard of Sandpoint, let alone Bonners Ferry. I guess my point is that I don't think north Idaho is as widely known as being a "cool place" as you might think. Perhaps among certain groups it may be more well known, but it's still pretty far off the radar screen for most people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jem22
Ultimately, it isn’t land use or zoning that define the rural makeup of a place, it’s the people who make up the largest demographic and/or hold political sway.
This is an interesting point. I think land use and zoning are very significant factors in determining how rural an area may be. To understand that land use and zoning are important elements of being rural you only need to think about whether you could turn a large city "rural" simply by replacing the citizens with people that fit your rural personality profile. I think the notion that you could make a large city rural simply by putting the right people there is absurd. I would grant you that the nature of the people that live there certainly are a big part of forming the character of an area though.
One challenge in making an evaluation of the population in north Idaho is the relatively large number of transient visitors. That guy tailgating you up 95 very well may not be a resident, but simply guy from the city trying to squeeze the most out of his limited vacation time.
I really doubt that most people who are moving to Idaho are doing so without having given it enough thought to develop deeper reasons than "it ranks high on the cool scale," or "because it's Idaho." Although there are some similarities with neighboring states, there are also very real differences between eastern Washington, north Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. We considered all those possibilities, and I can give you clear reasons why we ruled out the other choices when we decided to move to Idaho. They may not be reasons that resonate with you, but they did with us, and the "Idaho cool factor" was not part of our decision process.
Another note on the cool factor: I find that most people only have the vaguest notions of where I'm talking about when I tell them we are moving to north Idaho. As I describe where we are going I often get the reaction "Oh, you're way up there." Well, yeah, I said north Idaho, where else did you think I was talking about?
Some people have heard of a place called Coeur d'Alene, but I very rarely run across anybody who has even heard of Sandpoint, let alone Bonners Ferry. I guess my point is that I don't think north Idaho is as widely known as being a "cool place" as you might think. Perhaps among certain groups it may be more well known, but it's still pretty far off the radar screen for most people.
This is an interesting point. I think land use and zoning are very significant factors in determining how rural an area may be. To understand that land use and zoning are important elements of being rural you only need to think about whether you could turn a large city "rural" simply by replacing the citizens with people that fit your rural personality profile. I think the notion that you could make a large city rural simply by putting the right people there is absurd. I would grant you that the nature of the people that live there certainly are a big part of forming the character of an area though.
One challenge in making an evaluation of the population in north Idaho is the relatively large number of transient visitors. That guy tailgating you up 95 very well may not be a resident, but simply guy from the city trying to squeeze the most out of his limited vacation time.
You really underestimate the power of the Cool Factor.
I moved to Bozeman twice, 10 years apart, to work for a company. I had a job awaiting both times.
The first time was in 1989, midway through Bozeman's Cool Factor period. The second was in 2001, when I expected the Cool Factor to have faded.
Bozeman has a lot of attractiveness. It lies nestled in some of the most beautiful mountains in the West, has a University, a ski hill very close to town, is close to a National Park, and has 2 fine fishing and whitewater rivers very close by.
Hollywood fell in love with Bozeman in the mid-70's and the love affair lasted well into the 80s. Clint Eastwood, Robert Redford, Jeff Bridges, and many other top stars made movies there, often using Bozeman as a backdrop and featuring most of the surrounding areas. There were many TV movies made, and Montana was a popular romantic theme in many pop songs of the era.
The 1976 Winter Olympic teams chose Bozeman as their training grounds. Outdoor sports, the cowboy lifestyle, natural beauty, cheap land, a young hip college population, and easy access due to I-90 all combined at once, and in 10 years, Bozeman double in size. In another 10, the Gallatin valley was beginning to fill up, and Belgrade, once a tiny grain elevator town, began growing.
That's when I lived there for the first time. Bozeman was plenty cool then, even though the town had grown from 13,000 to 23,000 people. The shop where I worked employed around 80 people then. Only 10 were Bozeman natives. 15 more were Montana natives. All the rest had moved there from out of state.
Most of the out of staters moved there in impulse. There were lots of different reasons, but they all amounted to Bozeman is Cool.
10 years later, when I went back, Belgrade's population had grown from 2300 to 5800. Bozeman's growth slowed because the terrain surrounding the town stopped the growth. The Bozeman housing prices went sky high as a result, and Belgrade, 6 miles away, got everyone who couldn't afford a house in Bozeman.
The Gallatin valley, stopped by the Gallatin river canyon to the south and the mountains on the north and east, also filled up. Belgrades population grew 67% in 10 years. Gallatin county grew in double digit population from 1970 to 2010 with the highest percentages being 47% in 1970 and 35.5% in 2010.
And it was all due to the Cool Factor. Once an area hits the public at large as being cool, the flood starts.
Montana is no longer as cool, but Idaho is taking it's place now. Stand by. it doesn't take much for the floodgates to open.
And it was all due to the Cool Factor. Once an area hits the public at large as being cool, the flood starts. Montana is no longer as cool, but Idaho is taking it's place now. Stand by. it doesn't take much for the floodgates to open.
Perhaps, but my observation is that Idaho, and particularly north Idaho, are not as well known among people outside the northwest. I don't think Idaho has reached a level of public awareness anywhere near that of Bozeman. I also think Bozeman has some things that draw people that north Idaho does not, most notably perhaps being a reasonably significant university.
Perhaps, but my observation is that Idaho, and particularly north Idaho, are not as well known among people outside the northwest. I don't think Idaho has reached a level of public awareness anywhere near that of Bozeman. I also think Bozeman has some things that draw people that north Idaho does not, most notably perhaps being a reasonably significant university.
North Idaho has a university of similar size to MSU.
I'd argue the significant difference is the Gallatin mountain range and nearby Yellowstone for Bozo.
Perhaps, but my observation is that Idaho, and particularly north Idaho, are not as well known among people outside the northwest. I don't think Idaho has reached a level of public awareness anywhere near that of Bozeman. I also think Bozeman has some things that draw people that north Idaho does not, most notably perhaps being a reasonably significant university.
I'm not sure. I know of Bozeman but in current time never hear anything about it or the state of Montana. I've been to Bozeman, it's a pretty little town but nothing really to write home about. I grew up in SE Idaho and never jumped on the "Montana is cool" bandwagon. Montana never really crossed my mind unless I entered Yellowstone National Park via West Yellowstone. I guess I am indifferent to Montana and would never want to live there.
The population of North Idaho along with the growth rates, especially the Coeur d'Alene area, would suggest to me more people are drawn to North Idaho rather then Bozeman and Montana.
I know many younger working people here in Boise who have left Montana to start a new life in Idaho's capitol city.
Growing up back east, I absolutely knew of the Colorado thing inspired by John Denver's music. Then I remember living in the midwest when Montana became THE cool place.
I had never really heard anything about Idaho other than the potato thing and that Bruce Willis and Demi Moore lived there (no idea how I knew that!) but when we lived in AZ, my husband had a client in Sandpoint, (Coldwater Creek) and he "discovered" northern Idaho when he traveled here on business. Before that, Idaho wasn't on our radar.
We bought our property shortly thereafter with the intention of building a summer cabin and the following summer came to build and never left. That was 12 years ago. I think the first articles about Sandpoint came out after we got here but not sure.
But we've never been cool people so I wonder if we'll have to leave after all the cool people get here.
I would hope the non-cool dorky people would be grandfathered in or something. After all, if not for the dorky people, how would the cool people know how cool they really are?
Growing up back east, I absolutely knew of the Colorado thing inspired by John Denver's music. Then I remember living in the midwest when Montana became THE cool place.
I had never really heard anything about Idaho other than the potato thing and that Bruce Willis and Demi Moore lived there (no idea how I knew that!) but when we lived in AZ, my husband had a client in Sandpoint, (Coldwater Creek) and he "discovered" northern Idaho when he traveled here on business. Before that, Idaho wasn't on our radar.
We bought our property shortly thereafter with the intention of building a summer cabin and the following summer came to build and never left. That was 12 years ago. I think the first articles about Sandpoint came out after we got here but not sure.
But we've never been cool people so I wonder if we'll have to leave after all the cool people get here.
I would hope the non-cool dorky people would be grandfathered in or something. After all, if not for the dorky people, how would the cool people know how cool they really are?
I find it mysterious as to why it happens. In Bozeman's instance, there were a lot of different things that happened in stages. I think the Boze romance actually started in the early 70's, when a bunch of popular writers moved from California, New York. and other places started living there in the summers. One writer, writing one best seller, can create more interest in a place than any other creative art does, and Bozeman had 6 best-selling authors in the area at one time.
Once the writers started coming, some Cali artists followed, and then some movie stars began moving there. Dennis Quaid and then-wife Meg Ryan moved there in ca. 1978 and lived there permanently until their divorce. Meg was the queen of movie romantic comedies for the next 12 years or so, and she, more than Quaid, really put Bozeman/Livingston on the map for the Hollywood crowd.
At the same time, the beginnings of extreme outdoor sports became the thing for a huge number of people. Boze was consistently on the Top 10 lists for this. In addition, the college there was always short on dormitories, so college kids rented houses, grew to love the area, and stayed. Later, their parents bought the houses for their kids and kept them as rentals, or moved into them as they retired.
In time, all the Montana young folks who lived in tiny towns moved to Boze for jobs, especially work they couldn't find in fields like engineering, computers, etc. There comes a time when a city becomes large enough to be self-sustaining through size alone.
It's like a snowball rolling downhill that never stops until it's enormous and hits the bottom of the hill.
But times change… I honestly don't know if the same confluences will happen in the 21st century. America went through 3 decades of excess in a lot of things; the 60's, 70's, and 80's were all excessive in different ways, but all 3 involved a lot of moving around to new places, and the 90's only tapered off a little.
Maybe this century will be different. What was most interesting in the statistics I found was the 2013 projection growth in the Gallatin valley was only 3.2%. That's the lowest in over a century. The snowball finally stopped rolling.
I'm not sure. I know of Bozeman but in current time never hear anything about it or the state of Montana. I've been to Bozeman, it's a pretty little town but nothing really to write home about. I grew up in SE Idaho and never jumped on the "Montana is cool" bandwagon. Montana never really crossed my mind unless I entered Yellowstone National Park via West Yellowstone. I guess I am indifferent to Montana and would never want to live there.
The population of North Idaho along with the growth rates, especially the Coeur d'Alene area, would suggest to me more people are drawn to North Idaho rather then Bozeman and Montana.
I know many younger working people here in Boise who have left Montana to start a new life in Idaho's capitol city.
I've long had a strange feeling that Idahoans don't really care for Montana, but maybe I'd be wiser to just see it as a matter of indifference, which is probably a sentiment that many Montanans in turn reciprocate toward Idaho.
Regarding your contention that NOID has a stronger allure than Bozeman (and really Montana in general), I would have to agree completely. Economic development and urban expansion is much stronger there than it is here, no question about that, and a growing metropolis like Boise, in addition to the suburban atmosphere of Coeur d'Alene and its proximity to Spokane, gives Idaho a definite edge over Montana.
I'm perplexed when I ponder the future of Idaho, though; will I really appreciate it as much once it goes the way of Colorado entirely?
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