Immigration and Ethnic Conspiracy Theories (Tom Tancredo, legal, employment, ethic)
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By comprehensive immigration reform "Roberto" means amnesty for a largely unskilled, poorly educated, non-tax paying population. He supports this solely because most people who would benefit from that idiotic policy share his ethnicity. As an elected public official he apparently views his first priority not to the needs of people in NJ but to people in Central and South America.
In other words he's the Latino Senator not the senator from NJ. I'm not voting for him because of it. He was elected to represent NJ citizens not people from Latin America. To label my decision to vote against him because of that assertion mere racism is disgusting.
That's basically the only argument that most illegal supporters have on this issue: disagree with amnesty for illegal immigrants and you are a racist. It's a vile insult that does nothing but cover up real racism.
Since this thread is mostly about people coming here from S of the border I found this article interest. Speaking of racism.
By comprehensive immigration reform "Roberto" means amnesty for a largely unskilled, poorly educated, non-tax paying population. He supports this solely because most people who would benefit from that idiotic policy share his ethnicity. As an elected public official he apparently views his first priority not to the needs of people in NJ but to people in Central and South America.
In other words he's the Latino Senator not the senator from NJ. I'm not voting for him because of it. He was elected to represent NJ citizens not people from Latin America. To label my decision to vote against him because of that assertion mere racism is disgusting.
That's basically the only argument that most illegal supporters have on this issue: disagree with amnesty for illegal immigrants and you are a racist. It's a vile insult that does nothing but cover up real racism.
Yep.
Because you could remove every one of the over 30 million illegals here and the USA would still be the most racially and ethnically diverse nation on earth.
It's foolish to speak of open borders as a race issue and insist that people from some countries should not be expected to obey the immigration laws that others obey.
And anyone can take a look at the immigration of the past few years and see that immigration has not been about diversity at all. It's very unbalanced at this point.
Because you could remove every one of the over 30 million illegals here and the USA would still be the most racially and ethnically diverse nation on earth.
It's foolish to speak of open borders as a race issue and insist that people from some countries should not be expected to obey the immigration laws that others obey.
And anyone can take a look at the immigration of the past few years and see that immigration has not been about diversity at all. It's very unbalanced at this point.
Though I've delayed because I intended to watch these videos, I don't have the time to watch all of them and post detailed refutations of each. I'll limit myself to some general comments on this ethnic conspiracy theory and its counter-intuitive nature.
To begin with, these videos consist of Mexicans or individuals that purport to be Mexican or Mexican-American (an ill-defined term with limited meaning), espousing some form of ethnic advocacy. Yet I've never seen or heard any individual promote a straightforward annexation of the lands transferred in the Mexican Cessation and Gadsden Purchase by the Mexican government. If any individual did so, it would be indicative of an individual view, not a hiveminded collective view that is imputed to an entire population defined as an "ethnic group."
The only statistical evidence of "revanchist" tendencies that I have personally seen is a single Zogby poll that indicates that a slight majority of Mexicans believe that these ceded territories are rightfully Mexican property. This view is not morally supportable (essentially because these territories were gained through ethnic cleansing of Southwestern Indians), but is typical of nationalistic myth and nostalgia. A comparable example is the veneration of the Confederacy that is still strong throughout the U.S. South, but is not attacked as treasonous or seditious because Southerners are not perceived as members of an outgroup or foreign ethnic group.
Therefore, the secessionist views of an organization such as the League of the South are not ascribed to all Southerners, because the hive mind mentality that is ascribed to Mexicans and those perceived as Mexican (such as Central Americans, who ironically may have historic territorial disputes with Mexico that are just as or more significant).
The more fundamental problem, however, is based on the widespread U.S. ignorance of the nature of Mexican ethnicity. The "reconquista" conspiracy theory stems from its proponents having posited a "racial" conflict between "whites" and "Mexicans." This conception is based on a false dichotomy, since Mexican control of these ceded territories came about through European colonialism practiced by white Spaniards, and ethnic Spaniards (criollos) continued to dominate Mexican governmental administration of these territories even after secession from the Spanish Empire.
Moreover, Mexican society is still racially stratified in a manner similar to historic colonial hierarchies, as evidenced by Villarreal's Stratification by Skin Color in Contemporary Mexico: "In this study, I use data from a nationally-representative panel survey of Mexican adults to examine the extent of skin-color-based social stratification in contemporary Mexico. Despite extreme ambiguity in skin color classification, I find considerable agreement among survey interviewers about who belongs to three skin color categories. The results also provide evidence of profound social stratification by skin color. Individuals with darker skin tone have significantly lower levels of educational attainment and occupational status, and they are more likely to live in poverty and less likely to be affluent, even after controlling for other individual characteristics."
The consequence is summarized by The Tones of Democratic Challenges: Skin Color and Race in Mexico: "Indigenous people tend to posit less trust and be less proud of the political institutions than whites, but there is no difference among any racial group on their level of pride of being Mexicans. Finally, darker-skinned and indigenous individuals do support illegal actions of protest against the government."
The darker-skinned population that constitute the majority of the Mexican population and the large majority of the recent immigrant population (legal and illegal alike), generally perceive that their interests are contrary to those of the Mexican government; it is therefore unlikely that they would take a positive view of territorial expansion of the jurisdiction of that government.
As for so-called Mexican-Americans, who are not uniformly dark-skinned and exhibit a wider range of phenotypic features, empirical research indicates that they gradually abandon Spanish language use with generational distance from Mexican immigrants and increasing socioeconomic status, intermarry with Anglos, and cease to identify as Mexican or Mexican-American.
A demonstrative study is The case of the disappearing Mexican Americans: An ethnic-identity mystery: "We examine the issue of identification stability for U.S.-born Mexican Americans, by far the largest of the ethnic groups growing as a result of contemporary immigration. We demonstrate a significant exodus from the Mexican-American group as identified by the census. The major part of this loss, revealed by comparisons of birth cohorts across the 1980, 1990, and 2000 Censuses, occurs because individuals who identified themselves as Mexican American at an earlier point in time do not do so at a later point."
In conclusion, the ethnic conspiracy theory in question is not supported by evidence.
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Originally Posted by SoEdible
LOL ... OK, whatever you say. It's obvious that there is no point continuing to talk with you about this.
There is not, if only because you have provided much in the way of contradictions but nothing in the way of argumentative refutations.
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Originally Posted by SoEdible
Benicar, nice post. People try to act like those things aren't a serious concern and component of the illegal immigrant debate and existence.
They're about as serious as Father Charles Coughlin's radio broadcasts about Jewish control, a claim that is repeated in the present day by the same white supremacists that also promote the reconquista conspiracy theory.
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Originally Posted by Eleanora1
Exactly. We're not stupid.
And yes, Senator "Roberto" Menendez does seem himself as a Latino who reprents Latinos...By comprehensive immigration reform "Roberto" means amnesty for a largely unskilled, poorly educated, non-tax paying population. He supports this solely because most people who would benefit from that idiotic policy share his ethnicity.
Robert Menendez is a white man born to Cuban refugees. Only the arbitrary categorization of "Hispanics" as a monolithic ethnic group, a concept with limited meaning, is a basis for considering him to be a member of the same ethnic group as a Mexican or Guatemalan Indian.
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Originally Posted by Eleanora1
As an elected public official he apparently views his first priority not to the needs of people in NJ but to people in Central and South America.
The concept of aggregating the populations of Central and South America as a single "ethnic group" is unique to the U.S., though reference to Central and South America is not precise because it excludes Mexico and includes non-Hispanic countries such as Belize, Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana, and Brazil.
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Originally Posted by Eleanora1
In other words he's the Latino Senator not the senator from NJ. I'm not voting for him because of it. He was elected to represent NJ citizens not people from Latin America. To label my decision to vote against him because of that assertion mere racism is disgusting.
That's basically the only argument that most illegal supporters have on this issue: disagree with amnesty for illegal immigrants and you are a racist. It's a vile insult that does nothing but cover up real racism.
This strawman fallacy that you have now repeated several times does not gain legitimacy or accuracy with repetition.
To state the claim again, there are certain affinities between white supremacists and non-supremacists who believe the same ethnic conspiracy theories. This does not mean that their views are identical, but they are fellow travelers in certain capacities, and could travel in the same direction if not to the same destination, for example, through mutual support for more authoritarian immigration policy and mass roundups that may rely on racial profiling in practice if not in theory. A search of Stormfront will reveal many posters there to be enthusiastic supporters of Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
This Stormfront post was particularly interesting:
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People should read citydata dot com and other demographic sites more often. Things aren't as dire as they seem in the golden state demographically speaking.
These posts have been extracted from the most recent threads on Stormfront and this forum regarding the Aztlan ethnic conspiracy theory, and reveal the same commonalities, since the comments are not greatly distinct:
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The undeclared war from the south on our people and nation has now been declared.
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Eventually, unless both illegal and legal immigration is slowed to a crawl and the present amount of illegals is addressed, it will be inevitable.
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I like how they say the U.S. stole their land, when in fact the U.S. won and bought the land. Oops.
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They've already conquered CA and turned it into another third world cesspool like mx.
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I have read enough and heard enough first hand about this reconquista movement to make me believe that many Americans of Mexican descent believe this and many Mexicans still in Mexico believe this.
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Right now they lack the numbers to do much of anything. However, if we continue to have more of them of that same mindset flow over our borders in huge numbers daily and have anchors whom they would instill with that same "stolen land" grudge, it could be a problem in a few more years.
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They will succeed in making this like the countries they left because crossing illegally over the border doesn't magically change them. The irresponsible breeding, having children they cannot properly raise and support is a big factor in what's going wrong back home, the "life-is-cheap" attitude.
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Actually I would not underestimate the threat.
Remember when everyone thought Bin Laden was an old hag in a cave. He attacked us twice.
Mexico has tunnels into the U.S.
Its been reported the Mexican cartels have submarines undetected,
they have killed hundreds of Mexicans that did not want to be representatives in American cities.
They recently bomb a Casino.
I would not take them lightly. We have a failed state on our border that has citizens within our gates.
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Many Mexicans have the above view and think they can take the land back by producing many babies on our soil. It would be a takeover by births rather than fighting a real war like uncowardly people would do.
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It is mostly a Chicano's dream but illegals are their little foot soldiers to help them achieve this dream. They know if they produce enough babies on our soil that it will be an automatic takeover. They lack the cajones to fight us in a real war so this is their method of conquering. Kind of a coward's way if you ask me.
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They insist on all their services be provided for them in their own language, they continue giving their true allegience to their own country, and they cram pack the maternity units of our hospitals and our welfare offices.
They aren't going to form armies to take over, they're doing so through other means.
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I never take any enemy lightly, just because I laugh at them doesn't mean I underestimate them. I live in Arizona. It's why I carry every where I go.
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I commented on the news article and look at ALL the comments everyone! This is America!!!
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Why do they have to take over the southern US to obtain this standard of living? If this is all so easy why can’t they create this standard of living in Mexico? The reason of course is because they don’t have the ingenuity, the work ethic, the foresight, the ability to delay gratification and the intelligence to do so.
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Figure also that the Mexican Army will supply arms and men to the La Raza insurgents, much the way the Germans and Italians aided Franco in the Spanish Civil War
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To take back the lands and turn it into the 3rd world cesspool they fled from?
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I live in Los Angeles, and can tell you from first-hand experience, as soon as a neighborhood turns Mexican, it LOOKS and FEELS like Mexico. The streets are filthy, filled with trash and graffiti. They take no pride in upkeep of their property. It's common to see old furniture out on the front lawn or curb. They blast loud music at all hours of the night. No respect for themselves or their neighbors.
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I fear their baby making skills much more than their organizational or firearm skills.
Though these affinities do not constitute identical worldviews, as has been repeatedly emphasized, they are affinities nonetheless.
...These posts have been extracted from the most recent threads on Stormfront and this forum regarding the Aztlan ethnic conspiracy theory, and reveal the same commonalities, since the comments are not greatly distinct...
In fact I was reading them myself earlier today, for some comparison groundwork too...
The thread here on the "Aztlan War" has been closed, but it has an interesting aspect on the Internet that the whole recent story looks fully contrived...
Not by the Aztlan groups out there, but by those that want to whip up the backlash on their views...
Study it yourself, I'm interested what opinions people come up with on it...
Do you have an actual response to what's been posted?
I think I made it clear in my last post...
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