libertarian vs anti-illegal immigration

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by jodipper

Years ago we had to carry our draft card at all times. I don't understand the pro illegal argument that having to carry ID is wrong.

I agree with national ID cards. A lot of problems could be solved.

Agreed. Nobody carries a passport regularly in this country, nor should they have to. We should just all have a national ID card that can double as a state driver's license and be done with it.

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by MrRational

for citizens; and those visiting the country legally.

hth

But once you introduce that qualification, I can also introduce any qualification I like and still call it libertarianism. How about, minimal government interference, except for those who go in between states. Or those who are gainfully employed. Or those own property.
If I were to accept the argument that illegal immigrants were bad for the economy, it should not matter. There is no qualification in pure libertarianism for those who are more or less economically beneficial. The ideology of libertarianism should automatically account for that, as the self-correcting free-market should work for everyone's benefit when people are allowed maximum freedom and minimum government interference.

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns

The REAL ID Act has already passed and is law. If anything, any Libertarian should be for all citizens having a US Passport, which would in effect cancel the need for the REAL ID Act to be further implemented.

That is definitely not what libertarians would want. A national ID? That is a large government regulation at the individual level.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

That is definitely not what libertarians would want. A national ID? That is a large government regulation at the individual level.

The problem is that millions of impoverished people want in the USA because they grow up believing our streets are lined with gold. Coming here sure beats making an effort to fight for reform of their own country and the very generous welfare programs already exist for them.

Illegals pouring over the border with no ability to purchase health care insurance or pay their hospital bill aren't going to be left to die in the streets, now will we want to see them filling up our sidewalks with their toddlers and infants selling Chickets or begging, much less dying of starvation. So they will come over that border, and they will be given all the government assistance they want and require.

Illegals having children here have absolutely no ability to provide them health care, and while some illegals might be willing to work for very low pay and are very good servants, that low pay doesn't cover the costs of them living here, not with our very high costs of living. In this country it's difficult for two married college graduates to make ends meet, but those pouring over the border having larger than average size families "need" the big government to pay their way.

Illegals never voted in a libertarian in their own country, they aren't about to do it here.

[Yac]

Back on topic folks, please. As a reminder, general rants, general thoughts about passports, general thoughts about grammar/spelling are not the topic.
Yac.

[Liquid Reigns]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

That is definitely not what libertarians would want. A national ID? That is a large government regulation at the individual level.

You have misunderstood my comment. The REAL ID Act is already law, many, not just libertarians, don't want it while others do want it. As I stated, the US Passport is already a National ID of sorts. Why would a libertarian be against the US Passport? Globalization? That's even bigger Government.

[Moth]

Originally Posted by Eleanora1

The pro-illegal side is one arguing for sacrifice. They're willing to sacrifice our schools, our hospitals, our road safety, our national identity as a nation of English speakers and our own poor and working class so they pander to the hispanic lobby and feel good about themselves for being so enlightened.

If schools in the inner city are more overcrowded they don't care. If the safety of communities is threatened by illegal criminals who break any laws they want they don't care. If people are the victims of hit and run accidents by unlicensed drivers who haven't been vetted and flee the scene without paying for the damage they cause they don't care. If hospitals serving the poor close because illegals are too cheap to pay even the small cost of medical care in Mexico they don't care.

Illegals threaten our privacy because they willfully steal our social security numbers as they could not work otherwise. They threaten our personal rights as we become a less free society as we have to fear neighbors who don't speak English and have no committment to the community as a whole because they are just transients. They threaten our security as we have no idea who is here and under what circumstances.

I would think a libertarian would be against importing such people here.

I agree and I lean towards Libertarianism.

I think they are nuts when it comes to illegal immigration. However, at least they are honest about it. The Dems and GOP are both basically open borders with a few dissenters on either side.

We have decriminalized illegal entry. Our own government will not follow its own laws and then sues the few brave states that attempt to fill the void.

Who exactly is against illegal immigration?

Nixon>Ford>Carter>Reagan>Bush>Clinton>Bush>Obama

None of them ever sealed the border as best he could. Get it over with and dissolve ICE. Use the money to build more prisons.

[All American NYC]

Libertarians with beliefs like Ron Paul would just cut benefits illegals receive & stop children of illegals from being citizens automatically. Naturally illegals would have no incentive to come here.