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What are all the other crimes that they are commiting? If you are refering to falsely applying for welfare programs, this is not true.The illegal immigrants who apply for welfare and other programs do so through their American born children. A person who is in the country illegally cannot qualify themselves for any welfare or food stamps. But the poster who I was originally replying to was suggesting that a majority of illegal immigrants are involved in criminal behavior BESIDES being in the country without permission. What types of crimes are you, afoigrokerkok, and the other poster reffering to? Are you suggesting that most illegal immigrants are involved in crimes such as: vandalism, purse-snatching, auto theft; or are most illegal immigrants bank robbers, arsonists, and/or murders? What I was saying is that besides being in the country illegally they are not involved in a life of breaking local or state laws at a rate higher than any other segment of the population. Or do you think differently?
Every year, nearly 9 million people pay their taxes using the wrong Social Security number. The name used on W-2 tax forms used by employers doesn't match the name on file with the Social Security Administration. There can be many reasons why -- a data entry typo by a human resources department, a woman changes her name after marriage and forgets to report it, or a man uses someone else's SSN to get a job.
Social Security calls this a "no-match" situation. When this happens, the Social Security Administration collects the money, but the wage credits go into limbo. They don't end up on anyone's annual Social Security statement, they end up in something called the Earnings Suspense File. Since 1984, when the Social Security card employment verification requirement kicked in, nearly $500 billion in wages has ended up in that file.
Who are all these people paying their taxes using the wrong SSN? Neither Social Security nor the IRS has ever studied this issue in great detail. But there are clear indications that many -- if not most -- of the 9 million mismatches are immigrants using the wrong SSN. One study by Social Security indicates no-match payments come most frequently from agricultural and restaurant industries, for example.
Not every mismatched SSN belongs to a real living person, and in fact, it appears many are chosen at random. Some belong to the deceased; others are entirely fictitious. One study showed thousands of entries using obvious fakes, such as 123-45-6789 or 999-99-9999.
But many victims are very real. Recently, officials in Utah matched a database of children receiving welfare benefits with a database of workers paying state taxes and found 1,800 child victims. (this was in 2003 so you can bet the problem is a lot worse now).
Well your reasoning is severely flawed, and aside from taking nothing from Mexico or the Spanish or the French in terms of land, the entire course of history is based on progress or power. If we gave everything back to whomever had it first, the world would be a barbaric place and full of disaster.
My grandfather and mother came from the Austro-Hungarian empire with a different alphabet and language (two-one for church and the other for daily business). In 11 to 13 years respectively they became citizens. This idea of speaking Spanish is a lot of crap by bigots who can barely speak their own language let alone another. Where I worked an livewd even after my military career, let's deal in facts: in Arabia its Arabic and English signs and lingo; in Europe the state language my kids learn is what - English with Italian secondary in school; and in China...you guessed it, American and not the King's English. Either these immigrants are lazy or just plain stupid, or you so-called Americans are giving away what you have never earned by deed unless you served in the government or service.
Dummy-down America spells disaster for the world. No one else cares about human dignity and life like the Americans, and when these Central and South American immigrants refuse to assimilate and propagate the mess they made in their own countries to the US way-of-life, it will be likened to the fall of Rome peacefully speaking.
America needs a draft again so these freeloading yuppies learn and earn their right to vote - Obama was an insult to every real American who earned the right to be called so. And for me who lived in the Middle East for 8 1/2 year, I tell you that this clown and traitor socialist called Obama will lead America to ruin and a larger war - you are perceived weak morally, socially and now spiritually. Like their values or not, Americas is not the world...nor do you want to be an equal partner in its corrupt and inhuman morass.
What is wrong with America is typified in Obama - handouts and lies.
What built America is being thrown away, and if you think Obama and his kind built this nation, you are rather ignorant and deluded. in Iraq was your reason for voting him in, then you are really stupids in warfare...one picks his ground....fighting Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan would have been suicide...in Iraq they came and died like flies. Now that Obama shifted the war to Afghanistan, even technology will not defeat geography...you need a draft, but then America is filled with cowards and freeloaders with a mercenary army to fight for them....a sad state of affairs for the real Americans left.
If you like what is happening with the new Americans perhaps you need to be weeded out with the cultural trash that threatens the greatest nation on this planet since Rome. It was Romans who gave away Rome and citizenship that killed Rome, and not the barbarians. And with no babies, well like America today with 2 working people in a household, no nation survives a lack of cannon fodder or labor.
The only indignity in this immigration issue is the lowering of values and standards that made America great and respected, and the current climate in DC and at home is viewed with auspicious eyes by Europe and the Chinese - America sucks at present....wake up is not enough...clean-up and stand-up is needed, and needed now, and perhaps a civil war to root out a philosophy of instant gratification and laziness present in the last 2 generations of Americans.
The only thing wrong with America is the new American philosophy exemplified by Obama and the welfare system he supported in Chicago. Jesse Jackson elevated the standards...Obama sued major corporations on racial claims for large sums of money that went where - go figure - and that horse still has the same color, President or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by think.reciprocity
Immigrants have always been an easy target in this country. "We" - the US public are really just playing into the political hands of the powers that be by falling for this same trick again & again. We did the same thing to immigrants during the early part of the 1900's. The language used then & the language now can almost be substituted word for word. Interestingly, a great deal of the political backing of the "illegal immigrant" talk back then was by the KKK.
We don't care to know the truth or look past the way the politicians & media are trying to sway our thoughts & see what is really going on. Nor do we care to know the truth of the past. Much of the west coast of the USA was Mexican land that we took from them - violating an existing treaty that allowed those who had land in those areas to keep it & remain living on it. We took ancestral land from Mexican people & claimed it as our own - kicking people off land that their ancestors had been living on for 100+ years.
There are few, if any of us, who have one iota of an idea what many of those who cross the border to come here & work survive just to get here - nor the conditions they leave behind to try & make a better life for their family. These are people who love their land & their heritage & likely would never leave if they had the economic opportunity to provide for their own. They risk their lives to come here - sacrifice everything - just to serve us our fast food, to pick our crops, or whatever the job is that even our teenagers often will not do. They pay our taxes & our social security - never to be able to reap the benefits because they are considered "illegal".
My grandfather came to this country in the early part of the 1900's from Russia. He was afraid of deportation until the day he died in 1973. I can find no record of him ever having a greencard or applying for citizenship. Not to mention the fact that he would not have qualified for citizenship to begin with because he could not read or write English. My grandfather was a hardworker & escaped harsh circumstances where he came from. To the best of my knowledge, I am the granddaughter of an "illegal alien".
I believe that any person who is willing to be a contributing member of our society should be afforded the right to seek "life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness" just as we are. I believe that this is a right bestowed by God upon ALL of His children - not just those who were born within the invisible / manmade borders of the United States. I believe that, as little as I have, I am willing to do with just a bit less to allow for someone else in greater need to have just a bit more.
Don't buy into the hype. While everyone is clamouring to kick out the "illegals" - there are real issues happening right under our noses but we're too busy scapegoating the easiest & least powerful targets.
Dummy-down America spells disaster for the world. No one else cares about human dignity and life like the Americans, and when these Central and South American immigrants refuse to assimilate and propagate the mess they made in their own countries to the US way-of-life, it will be likened to the fall of Rome peacefully speaking.
The only indignity in this immigration issue is the lowering of values and standards that made America great and respected, and the current climate in DC and at home is viewed with auspicious eyes by Europe and the Chinese - America sucks at present....wake up is not enough...clean-up and stand-up is needed, and needed now, and perhaps a civil war to root out a philosophy of instant gratification and laziness present in the last 2 generations of Americans.
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MANY interesting insights..GREAT points...You get an "A" for insight, perhaps a "D minus" for Political Correctness. Excpect to get a lot of flack, a few jeers, and a LOT of criticism for what you say here.
I've said a few of such things myself, and it will earn you FEW admirers. Consider me one, though.
In particular, the above points got my attention. America has "done" for immigrants for YEARS, and for people overseas, what very FEW other countries have done...or even tried to do. If it all "goes in the toilet" now, that's not the fault of new immigrants...it's the fault of us...the American people..for allowing ourselves to be 'guilted' this way, and to forget the inherent goodness built into our own, special, very RARE system. This HAS been a very "special" society....whether it remains so, is up to a number of factors, including our own attitude.
My
I believe that any person who is willing to be a contributing member of our society should be afforded the right to seek "life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness" just as we are. I believe that this is a right bestowed by God upon ALL of His children - not just those who were born within the invisible / manmade borders of the United States. I believe that, as little as I have, I am willing to do with just a bit less to allow for someone else in greater need to have just a bit more.
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Once again... My 50 cents worth...
These are noble thoughts....and I share your views, to a point. I believe in God, and believe He loves "all his children". I believe it is an 'accident of birth' that decides where a person is born, and I have no doubt that God loves 'foreigners' evey bit as much as He loves Americans. I ALSO believe there are many "nice" foreigners, and plenty of "rotten" Americans.
At some point, though, this isn't a religious debate...it's a question of international borders and man-made law. I do NOT believe that every individual on earth who may "want" to come to America can....or should be able to..do so. I think America has a VERY benevolent system of legal immigration, but I do NOT believe we have a "moral obligation" to include those who come illegally.
While I admire those who are "willing to be a contributing member of society", not everyone fits that category..nor is there any way under our laws to separate "good", contributing people, from selfish, lazy, non-productive 'bums'. GOD can make such distinctions; our legal system can not. What our legal system CAN do is distinguish between those legally entitled to be here, and those who are not. That's about the best we can do, as a society of human beings.
Human law is often different...(sometimes VERY different) from God's Law. I think most of us realize that.
Perhaps all this ranting and raving should cease, unless you want to get actively involved in government policy. Uh, does anyone know about the Trail of Tears?????????????????????????? Native Americans tribes kicked out of states like Georgia, Alabama and such, to be REMOVED to Oklahoma? Hmm. Kicked out of land they were already on, to "Indian Territory" (Oklahoma) How funny. Your country???? The Mexicans are giving all you minutemen types a run for your money. Deal with it. I'm sitting back with my feet up, browsing through my Spanish dictionary. Interesting, it use to be about, "black people needed to go back to where they came from" HAHA. Karma is a b---- ain't it.
The reason Newark is one of the murder capitals of America is because of all those dangerous housing projects/ghettos dominated by Blacks and Hispanics. Not because of Italian Americans. Staten Island has the largest number of Italian Americans out of the 5 boroughs and yet at the same time they have the lowest crime and murder rate out of the 5 boroughs. Staten Island for the most part is a pretty safe place to live.
Oh please. Not because of Eye-tal-yuns my a--. Always so ready to blame everyone of a darker hue. Interesting. However, this crime stat wasn't so during prohibition. Who do you think is flying the drugs into America..it sho ain't da blacks and hispanics.
Well your reasoning is severely flawed, and aside from taking nothing from Mexico or the Spanish or the French in terms of land, the entire course of history is based on progress or power. If we gave everything back to whomever had it first, the world would be a barbaric place and full of disaster.
My grandfather and mother came from the Austro-Hungarian empire with a different alphabet and language (two-one for church and the other for daily business). In 11 to 13 years respectively they became citizens. This idea of speaking Spanish is a lot of crap by bigots who can barely speak their own language let alone another. Where I worked an livewd even after my military career, let's deal in facts: in Arabia its Arabic and English signs and lingo; in Europe the state language my kids learn is what - English with Italian secondary in school; and in China...you guessed it, American and not the King's English. Either these immigrants are lazy or just plain stupid, or you so-called Americans are giving away what you have never earned by deed unless you served in the government or service.
Dummy-down America spells disaster for the world. No one else cares about human dignity and life like the Americans, and when these Central and South American immigrants refuse to assimilate and propagate the mess they made in their own countries to the US way-of-life, it will be likened to the fall of Rome peacefully speaking.
America needs a draft again so these freeloading yuppies learn and earn their right to vote - Obama was an insult to every real American who earned the right to be called so. And for me who lived in the Middle East for 8 1/2 year, I tell you that this clown and traitor socialist called Obama will lead America to ruin and a larger war - you are perceived weak morally, socially and now spiritually. Like their values or not, Americas is not the world...nor do you want to be an equal partner in its corrupt and inhuman morass.
What is wrong with America is typified in Obama - handouts and lies.
What built America is being thrown away, and if you think Obama and his kind built this nation, you are rather ignorant and deluded. in Iraq was your reason for voting him in, then you are really stupids in warfare...one picks his ground....fighting Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan would have been suicide...in Iraq they came and died like flies. Now that Obama shifted the war to Afghanistan, even technology will not defeat geography...you need a draft, but then America is filled with cowards and freeloaders with a mercenary army to fight for them....a sad state of affairs for the real Americans left.
If you like what is happening with the new Americans perhaps you need to be weeded out with the cultural trash that threatens the greatest nation on this planet since Rome. It was Romans who gave away Rome and citizenship that killed Rome, and not the barbarians. And with no babies, well like America today with 2 working people in a household, no nation survives a lack of cannon fodder or labor.
The only indignity in this immigration issue is the lowering of values and standards that made America great and respected, and the current climate in DC and at home is viewed with auspicious eyes by Europe and the Chinese - America sucks at present....wake up is not enough...clean-up and stand-up is needed, and needed now, and perhaps a civil war to root out a philosophy of instant gratification and laziness present in the last 2 generations of Americans.
The only thing wrong with America is the new American philosophy exemplified by Obama and the welfare system he supported in Chicago. Jesse Jackson elevated the standards...Obama sued major corporations on racial claims for large sums of money that went where - go figure - and that horse still has the same color, President or not.
Extremely well put. I also would like to know what some people's definition of "contributing member of society" is? The ability to grind out child after child? The ability to sniff out social service programs? How long before we have more immigrants on the take than the producers?
Perhaps all this ranting and raving should cease, unless you want to get actively involved in government policy. Uh, does anyone know about the Trail of Tears?????????????????????????? Native Americans tribes kicked out of states like Georgia, Alabama and such, to be REMOVED to Oklahoma? Hmm. Kicked out of land they were already on, to "Indian Territory" (Oklahoma) How funny. Your country???? The Mexicans are giving all you minutemen types a run for your money. Deal with it. I'm sitting back with my feet up, browsing through my Spanish dictionary. Interesting, it use to be about, "black people needed to go back to where they came from" HAHA. Karma is a b---- ain't it.
What about certain groups of White people who got screwed over? The Irish come to mind.
All peoples at different times got the shaft. As for American Blacks; obviously things were much better for them here in the USA during the Jim Crow era than 'back' in Africa----------otherwise there would have been a stampede to move there. Hell; our most successful socio-economic group here in the USA are Black folk (and their children) who immigrated freely from Nigeria, Kenya, etc. President Obama is the most famous example.
As for what happened to the American Indians: prior to the Euros, there was 'ethnic cleansing' between different groups/tribes as well. So it was not just a 'White' thing.
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Took nothing
Hell; our most successful socio-economic group here in the USA are Black folk (and their children) who immigrated freely from Nigeria, Kenya, etc. President Obama is the most famous example. 
