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Forgive my latin,, you must remember that even then most of the field workers were undocumented.
True---and once again, sorry about your personal experience. But remember that California field workers have been embroiled in ugly, violent turmoil since long before Chavez came on the scene. The "Okies" in the Valley had similar experiences---as well as the Japanese and the Filipinos. It's an inherently "abusive" system, just by its nature, (remember the "short-handled hoe" controversy?)--- and I can't think of any way to make stoop labor "attractive" to anyone....
My old man was really pissed when they banned short handled hoes, cost him a bundle and he said the workers were more accurate with them. Of course, us kids continued to use them in the fields,,
This is obsurd. You people have an excuse for everything. You get asked a simple question and you have to quote articles that are biased or come out with some kind of diversion to avoid answering the question. Someone tries to point out that that a woman 9 months pregnant does not risk her life to cross the border and have it in America because she's looking for work, she does it to aquire the right to be here. You turn it into an issue of "The husband works doesn't he?, The wives work too, blah blah blah". Well OF COURSE they have to work once their here, people who have to support a family have to work! Diverting totally from her original point!
NDFMLNF I'm sure if you got put out in the street because an illegal was willing to be a doctor for $20 and hour you'd be singing a whole different tune.
No one has a constitutional right to have a job. No one has a constitutional right to be free from competition. That's how our free market economy works. If a job can be performed by a worker at a lower cost with equivalent quality, then that worker should get that job. This is basic capitalism. The US is a capitalist country, right? If you don't like US capitalism, then maybe you should immigrate to another country (Cuba anyone?). Let those from other countries who believe in capitalism take your place.
Or you can retrain yourself, get some education, improve your skills so you can be more competitive. The market will see this, and will buy your services instead of the lower- skilled illegal's because you are perceived as delivering more value than the other guy. That's why I'm not particularly threatened by the spectacle of an illegal doctor taking away my job. I am confident that with the training and skills I possess, the market will reward me accordingly.
Or you can retrain yourself, get some education, improve your skills so you can be more competitive. The market will see this, and will buy your services instead of the lower- skilled illegal's because you are perceived as delivering more value than the other guy. That's why I'm not particularly threatened by the spectacle of an illegal doctor taking away my job. I am confident that with the training and skills I possess, the market will reward me accordingly.
Slick, but you're side-stepping the poster's challenge. You do well as a doctor because the AMA and its powerful lobby in Congres would toss any undocumented "amateur" doctor into prison so fast he wouldn't know what hit him..Heck, they won't even tolerate midwives in many states. Ever hear of "Joe's Discount Appendectomy Service"?..I didn't think so....
As a well-protected physician, you're safe in claiming that you are protected by your skills. But roofers and plumbers and block masons have skills, too. Should their unions lobby to toss THEIR undocumented competitors into jail?.....What's your comment on this?
No one has a constitutional right to have a job. No one has a constitutional right to be free from competition. That's how our free market economy works. If a job can be performed by a worker at a lower cost with equivalent quality, then that worker should get that job. This is basic capitalism. The US is a capitalist country, right? If you don't like US capitalism, then maybe you should immigrate to another country (Cuba anyone?). Let those from other countries who believe in capitalism take your place.
Or you can retrain yourself, get some education, improve your skills so you can be more competitive. The market will see this, and will buy your services instead of the lower- skilled illegal's because you are perceived as delivering more value than the other guy. That's why I'm not particularly threatened by the spectacle of an illegal doctor taking away my job. I am confident that with the training and skills I possess, the market will reward me accordingly.
So since it doesn't affect you, you don't care. And who the hell do you think you are telling me to get some education? You think because your a doctor you're better than me? For your information I work as a Diesel mechanic, a damn good one, and I have full confidence that I will ALWAYS out qualify any illegal or anyone else for that matter who wants to challenge me. However, it upsets me greatly to see a lot of my friends who work in construction being able to find less and less work, because people want CHEAPER, not BETTER. And the illegals who can afford to work for that salary live in the ghetto with 20 other roomates, and any self respecting American will flat out refuse to live like that. MOD CUT I have absolutely no doubt that you MOD CUTcould NEVER do what I do, and without the trucking industry your hospital and everything in it wouldn't be there, because at one time or another a truck brought the materials and the equipment inside it, and a MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN built it. I really hope with your arrogaunt attitude that illegals bankrupt your hospital, or your house built by illegals falls on your head. Have a nice day.
Last edited by NewToCA; 10-27-2007 at 06:25 PM..
Reason: personal attack
Slick, but you're side-stepping the poster's challenge. You do well as a doctor because the AMA and its pwerful lobby in Congres would toss any undocumented "amateur" doctor into prison so fast he wouldn't know what hit him..Heck, they won't even tolerate midwives in many states. Ever hear of "Joe's Discount Appendectomy Service"?..I didn't think so....
You're wrong. The licensing boards will toss out any "amateur" doctor (American or not)into prison. It has nothing to do with immigration. Licensure bars anyone (American or foreigner) who is not trained appropriately from practicing medicine in the US. The idea is, you must have the skills to practice. Other than that, everyone is free to compete with each other. I would welcome competition if it forces me to improve my skills. That's the way it should be. I suggest other occupations do the same. Those who are afraid of losing their strawberry-picking jobs to Mexicans are therefore encouraged to improve their skills at strawberry-picking in order to be competitive. Or they could move to a different kind of job with more difficult skill set requirements that will deter competition from the Mexicans.
You're wrong. The licensing boards will toss out any "amateur" doctor (American or not)into prison. It has nothing to do with immigration. Licensure bars anyone (American or foreigner) who is not trained appropriately from practicing medicine in the US. The idea is, you must have the skills to practice. Other than that, everyone is free to compete with each other. I would welcome competition if it forces me to improve my skills. That's the way it should be. I suggest other occupations do the same. Those who are afraid of losing their strawberry-picking jobs to Mexicans are therefore encouraged to improve their skills at strawberry-picking in order to be competitive. Or they could move to a different kind of job with more difficult skill set requirements that will deter competition from the Mexicans.
And what of those in the construction field? Let's say Mr. Illegal has worked for a while and is knowledgable, and is basically at the same level as an American worker in the same position. Now, the Amercan citizen has 3 options:
1) Accept the pay the illgal does, and not have a snowball's chance in hell of making it in today's society with a single family home.
2) Accept the same pay as an illegal does, move in to a run down rental house in the ghetto and live with 20 of his friends and family members.
3) "Educate" himself in another line of work and allow the illegals to over take the entire construction labor force.
Sounds like some good options for me. Where's your bleeding heart now for the American construction worker?
You're wrong. The licensing boards will toss out any "amateur" doctor (American or not)into prison. It has nothing to do with immigration. Licensure bars anyone (American or foreigner) who is not trained appropriately from practicing medicine in the US. The idea is, you must have the skills to practice. Other than that, everyone is free to compete with each other. I would welcome competition if it forces me to improve my skills. That's the way it should be. I suggest other occupations do the same. Those who are afraid of losing their strawberry-picking jobs to Mexicans are therefore encouraged to improve their skills at strawberry-picking in order to be competitive. Or they could move to a different kind of job with more difficult skill set requirements that will deter competition from the Mexicans.
What about an FMG who is in the country legally, has passed the licensure exam and is willing to work for $25,000 a year less than you. It couldn't happen? You told us earlier that things are always in a state of change and we must be open to new ideas and so forth. So here's this guy, he's just as good as you and he'll work for less.
MOD CUT What I am telling you is that regardless of your job (whether you are a doctor, lawyer, clerk, mechanic, farmer), you have to be willing to COMPETE with others if our free market capitalist economy is to continue to function correctly. The way you compete is you arm yourself with marketable skills that others will be willing to pay for. Therefore, you have to constantly upgrade your skills.
If you are not willing to compete, then you are better off moving to a different country where the sense of entitlement to a job that you display is rewarded. I suggest Cuba. North Korea is another possibility.
Last edited by NewToCA; 10-27-2007 at 06:27 PM..
Reason: lets clean this up
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