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I have a friend of mine who is 100% 'Anglo/White' in the legal sense (Hungarian heritage). I too am of half Hungarian background.
My friend; she has the full lips, high cheekbones, slanted eyes (with the 'Asian' epicanthic folds) brown eyes and hair-------she gets mistaken for a Fillipina (sp), American Indian, Italian, (Mestizo) Hispanic, etc. She looks very East Indian.
Now: I am Nordic White with strawberry blond hair, bluegray eyes and porcelain white skin.
Well I guess I have an opinion after all, 1st I believe that hispanic refers to a people who are of Spanish descent in some way or speak a language of Spanish origin. Most of the people indiginous to South america speak Spanish in some dialect, with the exception of Brazil, which speaks a form of Portuguese, a lot of people have held onto their origional native indian though and only speak Spanish out of necessity. The same goes for Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Central America and Mexico which is North America. The country of Portugal, of which my family is descended was once a part of Spain as well, although the language has changed and is distinct Portuguese. But of primary importance to me is the fact that labeling anybody anything seperates us as human beings and causes class, or racial distinctions, which breeds predjuice and hatred. We are all minority in some way or another, as we are all individuals, at one time in the USA Portuguese have been discriminated against, Irish had their turn, Jewish as well, Lets not forget the people of black color, and so on and on. We have all had our turn to be hated. My children and grand children are mixed with black my husband is of Bolivian descent, I am Portuguese. Who the heck cares what we are racially, and why do ther have to be labels and distinctions, we are all of the same source and are all equil, some would disagree with me but oh well. When we start seeing each other as brothers and sisters then the world will be a better place.
When you look at European colonialism -- the best thing for a country is to have been a former British colony. For some reason the British left their colonies in a pretty good position for self-rule and so one. Almost as though the British didn't plan to stay in charge for ever. So -- we have the USA, Canada, Australia -- first world countries that were former colonies. Barbados and Jamaica -- much better off than Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Cuba. And Hong Kong and parts of India were controlled by England and better off for having been.
Well said. WE love to 'beat up on those Brits" because they think they're 'special,' and they talk funny. But they did leave quite a legacy, as you say, and many places, like it or not, could have done much worse than to have had these 'Brits' as landlords. Enormous India, for example, to this day, has one of the world's densest and most efficient railroad networks, and was one of the world's first countries to be surveyed accurately from one end to the other....and guess who did THAT? (India also, if I'm not mistaken, is the world's LARGEST publisher of books in English, and has one of the largest 'pools' of English-speakers--quite an advantage in today's world)..
And, in a final reluctant back-handed tribute to these "stuffy, but basically decent sort of chaps", isn't it amazing that when the "Brits" finally pulled up their colonial 'stakes' and sailed for home, MILLIONS of their 'subjects' voluntarily decided to go WITH them?....
Pretty decent sort of "Imperialistic Barbarins", these Brits !...
Well said. WE love to 'beat up on those Brits" because they think they're 'special,' and they talk funny. But they did leave quite a legacy, as you say, and many places, like it or not, could have done much worse than to have had these 'Brits' as landlords. Enormous India, for example, to this day, has one of the world's densest and most efficient railroad networks, and was one of the world's first countries to be surveyed accurately from one end to the other....and guess who did THAT? (India also, if I'm not mistaken, is the world's LARGEST publisher of books in English, and has one of the largest 'pools' of English-speakers--quite an advantage in today's world)..
And, in a final reluctant back-handed tribute to these "stuffy, but basically decent sort of chaps", isn't it amazing that when the "Brits" finally pulled up their colonial 'stakes' and sailed for home, MILLIONS of their 'subjects' voluntarily decided to go WITH them?....
Pretty decent sort of "Imperialistic Barbarins", these Brits !...
''Won't get into a long dissection of your post, NYC 0127, but we did have a long discussion on culture some months ago. And it was, (and is) my contention that the US 'default' culture (a derivative of a small group of English Protestants) is fairly unique among world cultures, in that it contains the rare capacity for "societal guilt". ''
I understand what you're saying. This thread wasn't intended to be about culture, but obviously cultural is a big segment of it. As far as people of English descent in this country, very few - I mean very, are full or even close to full. It's been to mix to mix everything generation with Protestants from other groups ever since the 1800's. The only places where they may have remained a legitimate possibility to withhold some of their heritage would be in places they would not have to feel guilt for. An example of this would be Maine. There was probably more African slavery in Europe than Maine, which is the reason why Maine practically has no black people.
You're right though, people use them as an example. They were the creators of our society, as American uses their visions. Many white Americans all get thrown together, which seems to be acknowledged more of a white Anglo-Saxson descent, even if it isn't. Think about it. When anyone goes to the mall and sees white people are almost entirely Christian - does anyone ever try to depict who is who? Could they? And if they could, they'd be convinced that it would be pretty useless anyway.
I agree that we are a country that is about self-correction, but we are also very vulnerable. Just look at what's going on in this world today. It's pretty pathetic that we also stride for change, yet can't change major social aspects as individuals anymore - largely because we're all individuals who care for nothing but money. Latin America definitely puts blindfolds over their eyes, but I guess they could do what they want. While being there, good for them. In America, because Americans are generally very unintellectual - and the government likes to craftily promote the unity of people of Latin American descent (and sometimes they try saying ''minorities'' too), it's too overwhelming for the unintellectual populous to handle.
''Sounds simplistic, but I maintain that's a real rarity out there in the world.''
In the modern world, no. People stride to change, but they usually just have either better situations or have already solved many of their problems. That wasn't true a while ago, but it's more so true now. Many advanced nations are pretty much almost entirely one ethnicity. Look at Spain or Greece for example. Their whole populations are nearly representative of what it was centuries ago. There is a little bit of everything, but there is little economic differentiations, so people all live the same. In capitalism, the quality of your life is judged by your economic capabilities. The reason why inner-city blacks haven't dug out of their whole isn't because their black. That's why I said they need to delete blackness, and become Americans of no race - which whites and immigrant's children basically are.
America is a diverse nation in the modern world. Canada is a little, but not very diverse. Same thing with Australia. Countries you could relate the United States to have to be products of imperialism that represent large diverse populations. The best examples I could give for that would be Latin America and South Africa. South Africa changed just like us. They're a modern country. Similarly to the United States, there still are some problems - but both could be related.
Most of Latin America isn't both diverse and in the modern world. The best country I could think of would be Brazil. Segments of their population are in the modern world, but countries like Venezuela aren't completely Democratized. The only country that I believe could be related is Brazil. And possibly Cuba, because it's a communist state - which enforces that all are equal, which is why they are arguably the only country that has successfully kept Communism (with the exception of China which has a partial free market).
As the media or unintellectual Euro-Americans believe though, Latin America is far from the third world. They aren't what we are though. Most don't have the education or technology we do. Their governments feel it's in the best interests of the majority of people to not look outside the box. That may be true, if they don't plan on immigrating to the United States. Now that they have is largely a big reason why they endure many social problems.
''MOST nations and ethnicities have committed horrible mayhem upon others, but VERY few discuss their "guilt', or admit any accountability.''
You could make the argument that would be better though. It's not that they don't want to, but rather because they know it wouldn't be anything more than beating a dead horse. It would be really depressing to much of Germany if they reminded themselves of the Holocaust ever ten seconds. It does have a societal effect (which is why much of the country is Atheist), but it doesn't mean people go around feeling ashamed of themselves. Another thing is that their media's aren't as much of their minds as it is to ours. People are born inter-connected there. People don't have to talk about change or restructuring societies there - they just do it.
You could make the argument that Americans discussing ''accountability'' is socially beneficial, but if that's true - everyone should be socially subjected to enduring what they're ancestors did. Remember, we're all human-beings before we're citizens of our respective countries. Proper accountability in the intellectual world doesn't run on the theory: What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas lol If we are a country that ridicules whites for enslaving and segregating blacks (and especially southern whites), than why shouldn't Spaniard descended Latin Americans with a decent sized black population be responsible for enduring that history in this country?
This is common sense. If you saw an 90 year old white Cuban guy in a park in Miami, there is a very good chance his grandfather literally owned slaves. I'm not kidding, because all of you could do the math for yourself. He'd be born in 1920 and probably have a parent and grandparent that had their kids at an average age of 30 (people had kids earlier, but more back than). That'd mean that grandparent would have been born in 1858. Slavery wasn't abolished until 1886 in Cuba. That'd mean at age 28 it would have been abolished. Sadly, even many American-born blacks who reside in south Florida and had slave ancestors couldn't put that simple puzzle together. The same could be said to white southern descents in the Miami area who's ancestors would have owned slaves.
Basically, in Latin America - they force their own blindness. In this country, the people are so stupid - they wouldn't even know or think about it (even for much of the educated). In Europe, because no one ridicules people over and over for what their ancestors did in a more proper manner would leave them away from disgrace if they didn't live there, but it doesn't mean that people don't know exactly what their ancestors did.
It shouldn't be like that in this country though. That's why I get a little uneasy about this. To claim that because Latin Americans weren't in this country equates to neutrality I could stomach. However, for anyone to tell someone who's ancestors brutally raped and owned slaves is not white and a ''minority'' because of his voluntarily immigrated economic situation to be a bunch of crap.
Yes, other nations simply won't care - but it doesn't mean they don't know. People in this country blame a select few, only if it corresponds to your modernized economic situation that has nothing to do with the treatment your ancestors either gave or receive. The fact that they won't listen might not be right, but it means the blame game isn't played. It means no one has an excuse. That ''banging the buck'' is what will keep an overwhelmingly large number of African-Americans in poverty for generations and generations to come. In this country, it's socially accepted that black equates to poverty. That isn't true globally though. The truth is, all people are equal in Europe, Canada or where ever else. We are in America too, but we rely on a comfort zone of excuses (especially black) to make themselves feel a little less disgraced about their education, intellect and economics.
It'd be nice to delete all racist, but that just can't happen. What I say is to take the factions out of racism, so it eventually dwindles and becomes something for the books. If the United States government didn't ask for your race on every job or college application, that'd be a good example of a step we should take. By making race useless or a non-categorization outside of anything except physical would equate to everyone being the same. If everyone has the same money, there's no leaning privilege. Immigrants take the punch for one generation - blacks often take it for life. That's why why we should use Canada and Europe's approach, so all are economically equal.
''History tells us that Empire's are not to exist forever, our country's wealth
was built on slave work from Africa, which lasted until the 1960's with the end of apartheid in the U.S., since then we have depended more and more on
labor from our neighbors down south and so far they have done an exceptional
work, but as they too progress in the economic ladder we need to keep
importing them, U.S. largest economy is still agriculture, if you take effective
labor from the equation, agriculture will also collapse, and will follow the fate of so many other sectors of the economy where the jobs have gone abroad, soon we may even get education over the internet by folks in India or China,
I always tell my fellow Americans; be careful on what you wish for!!!!''
Well, what you said is reality. I wish it weren't like this, because it discourages Americans to work. It's not like every American has a job. A lot of young kids can't get jobs because immigrants take them. I'm not saying it's the immigrants fault. They're actually innocent and making good of an economic gain. It's the American government and media that loves to gather broad amounts of sympathy for African-Americans like a big ocean wave, and than slam African-Americans when ever they actually have a shot. The civil rights movement wasn't the end for a struggle for African-Americans. The difference was that it used to not be in their hands, and now it is. It used to be about societal oppression, now it's about money. In the eyes of our media though, nothing is better than to make people feel bad for blacks - and let them continue that for life, so they have a dog to propel the middle and upper-middle class. It shouldn't be like this, but this is how it is.
I don't think in Mexico the Indians are like the Mexican nationalists here are at all. I don't think the Indians of Mexico even think that history can be undone and all the Spaniards go back to Spain and mestisos just go poof and Mexico becomes a 100% Indian nation. That is something though up by the radical types in OUR universities.
As far as white guilt -- maybe it's not exactly guilt but Americans allowing themselves to be blamed for everything that goes wrong. Mexicans of Aztec descent certainly don't feel any remorse over their ancestors enslaving and cannibalizing other Indians of Mexico. They plain don't care.
If one group of Indians took over the area of another group of Indians a long time ago -- their descendents aren't feeling any sorrow for their ancestors doing that. Just like the politicians apologizing for this and for that -- and for events that took place long before they were born -- it's pretty absurd when you think about it -- but that doesn't stop them.
Well yeah, of course that's true. For one, they don't want to be miserable and don't want a cry for help. I don't consider there to be any ''radical'' Mexican groups, because they're losers. If they voluntarily chose to immigrate to the United States and are promoting the idea of being different than the white American population, they're useless to both themselves and society. Why move to this country to do that? If they were actually promoting their ideals in their own country though, it'd manage to have it's skewed fashion into leaning towards whiteness though.
They're obviously minimal to both Mexican and Mexican-American populations. They're just miserable losers who create unwanted anxiety because they think them (or ''there people'') aren't being treated fairly because ''they look different.'' A lot who actually believe in these garbage philosophies as you noted actually are relatively educated people, but have basically created their own little worlds. It always dissolve though. The person leaves, but the loser ideas stay. When they're 40 and have a job they don't like and complaining kids, their hobby and energy for hate will go away.
''As far as white guilt -- maybe it's not exactly guilt but Americans allowing themselves to be blamed for everything that goes wrong. Mexicans of Aztec descent certainly don't feel any remorse over their ancestors enslaving and cannibalizing other Indians of Mexico. They plain don't care.''
True, kind of like that example I gave with people in Germany's ancestors oppressing Jews. It's not to say people don't know it, but at an individual level - people don't think about it (and do their best not to) because they'd know it'd depress them and do nothing more than create hostility amongst groups. When Germany was started like crap after WWI, that's what got them hostile and needy for a leader they believe could improve their economic situation. And look at what Europe ''ragging'' on them created. Hell.
Regardless of whether you rag or ignore, obviously it shouldn't be at one extreme to the other. Everyone should know all the facts before ragging though. They shouldn't play a game of selectivity. Even if you weren't to blame at an individual level, you should societally acknowledge who's ancestors were internationally oppressive figures. That way, even if Americans look at them neutrally because of their newness, they know it'd be absurd to consider Spaniard descended Latin Americans ''oppressed'' or ''minorities'', when indeed their ancestors were the most abusing Europeans on this hemisphere.
Just for the sake of curiosity - does anyone know why it says (Obama, vote) on the title of this forum? lol I didn't put that there. I probably did mention that I voted for Barack Obama in the New Jersey primary, but I never put that on the title of the forum. I'm sure most people who have kept up on this from the beginning are aware of that too. Did a moderator do that? I don't really mind, because that's actually a smart thing to do - but next time - ask me. Just because Obama was my vote though, doesn't mean it has to be all of yours. I'm sure the Hillary supporters wouldn't like that. As long as it's not McCain, it's cool lol
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Hispanic
