So what's the humane and true solution to illegal immigration? (visa, birth)
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I guess I just would like to see a solution that works for everyone and does as little damage to peoples' lives as possible. Illegal immigration should be put in check. I was hoping to see more solutions that put more thought into the lives of everyone involved.
Well unfortunately 70% of the people here are one of those people who "agrees" with everything but has no mind or says "YEAH DEPORT THEM! or HAMMER TIME!"
I guess I just would like to see a solution that works for everyone and does as little damage to peoples' lives as possible. Illegal immigration should be put in check. I was hoping to see more solutions that put more thought into the lives of everyone involved.
Solution.
1. Enforce the laws
2. Bring our troops home from Germany and South Korea and patrol the border, make it air tight.
3. All illegals already here need to be sought out and deported no exceptions.
4. Illegals married to legals. Sent home and forced to apply for immigration like anyone else. Past sins forgiven.
5. Birth right citizenship should be honored until we pass the law banning it. Parents of said child have the choice. Leave the child with legal citizens who are family, place for adoption or take the child with them.
6. Employers and land lords of illegals prosecuted to the max of the law.
Short term pain long term gain
I hear and read a lot of divisive opinions on the subject all the time. But nobody seems to have a viable solution to the problems. We all know the issues, we all have some ideas of what the potential solutions could look like. But some people seem to think it's an easy fix - "just send them all back where they came from". The more intelligent discussions I've seen often have more thought put into it than that. Let's take a minute and have an intelligent discussion about it, and please, let's keep in mind that these are human beings we're talking about. Not animals.
But we aren't talking about "innocent" people either... keep in mind there are millions of people waiting to come here legally and illegals want to cut in line... would you like it if someone constantly cuts in line in front of you wherever you are? Dining at a restaurants, sorry 10 people just cut in line in front of you... opps another 10 just walked in and cut in front of you again.. and again... and again? How would you feel about that? Its not fair to the people waiting in line... and telling them "Oh well, too bad, they are human too you know." is not a good excuse...
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The main issues:
- The root of the problem in my opinion is Mexico's high poverty level and poor economy. Any security measures we put in place (fences, armed guards, etc) or laws we enforce will not stop people from risking their lives to get across our southern border. We could slow down the flow, but only a little. Shouldn't there be something done to address the root of the problem? I know this has happened in a few European countries, where the nation with the stronger economy had to help the neighboring country with their poor economy to prevent a flood of immigrants looking for work.
You are right the corrupt government and drug cartels have been a big problem.. What should we do? Brand them as terrorists and attack them? European countries STILL has problems with illegal immigration and their help didn't do crap... We need barriers and we need reasons for people to not to cross over... people will cross over for many different reasons, most of them money... and the only way for them to stop is to cut off the money supply... shut down any place that hires illegals and you will see them stop coming here as well as put barriers to deter them and the incoming tide will stop PERIOD
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- How to deal with people that came here illegally? Sure, we could deport everyone we come across. How expensive will that be? And what impact would that have on our economy? And is that really the humane and morally ethical thing to do? I haven't heard a good plan yet that addresses all points of this issue well.
If you shut off the money supply, they will self-deport... cost? Nothing... make laws to shut down any business that hires illegals and they will all self-deport themselves... the economy will be doing fantastic! We are over 6% in unemployement right now, we can fill all the people with jobs a plenty if the illegals left... Is it morally ethical right? Yes, the people who are waiting in line to come in here have FIRST dibs, it sure is the ethical thing to do to make line cutters go to the back of the line... or did you forget about the people waiting in line? Is it the humane thing to do? If you have a choice to give a job to a legal American citizen or an illegal who is currently in Mexico, which one would you give the job to? You are depriving the legal American citizen of a job to entice an illegal to come over and risk death crossing the desert and working with criminals... which is more humane?
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- How do address the laws and policies going forward to take away the incentives for illegal border crossing? One law that was on the ballot last time around was putting more responsibility on companies to check for citizenship and punish those companies that ignore those checks, or worse, knowingly hire illegals. For some reason, it didn't get passed and I'm not sure why. I think I heard that Congress didn't want to impose more costs on businesses, and that they felt it would put too much burden on the economy. It would seem to me that our economy is creating a demand for illegal immigration. So how do we change that?
Take the incentives? No more anchor babies, no more "free" passes to our educational system, and no more "free" passes to our resources... Yes, we need to shut down companies that hire illegals... they HAVE ways to hire legal workers from other countries but guess what? They are STUCK with the social cost of hiring the workers meaning the companies had to pay for health care and other social costs, NOT TAXPAYERS... the companies don't want to do that and they hire illegal workers and fight any laws to bar them... companies are NOT doing this for your sake, they could hire Americans but don't... don't fall for their rhetoric of burden.. they are flat out lying... its like asking a child if he/she will be fine without candy for the rest of their lives, of course they are going to claim "burden"...
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- How do we achieve all the goals to make a positive improvement without bringing about more hate crimes, racism, and violence? There is already a good deal of tension surrounding this issue, and too many people are starting to sound anti-Mexican more than anti-illegal immigration. That's quite disturbing and makes our nation look as bad as it did 40 years ago.
Positive improvement? Honestly hate crimes have little to do with illegal immigration... since "hate" is really something that develops between people's experiences growing up... eventually, racism will go away (probably not in my lifetime)... are there hate crimes against "illegal immigrants", absolutely but illegal immigrants is not the "reason" for hate crimes... as I said earlier it has more to do with upbringing than illegal immigration... Solving racism is not something ANYONE can do, its just a part of life that eventually fades as other society keeps progressing... it takes time and people seem to think they can rush things they have no control over... you can't... we are not gods... we are just human...
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I'd like to read some ideas on rational, intelligent, and well thought out plans that would actually help solve the problems without inciting more hatred and disgusting attitudes that are embarrassing to many of us Americans.
As I said before, line cutting is not fair and those that cut in line need to go to the back of the line...
We need to set up barriers, not just for illegal immigration but also as to prevent drug runners, criminals, and whatever riff-raff seeks to enter this country illegally..
We need to set up policies to deter people from coming here illegally, no more anchor babies, no more free rides in education and such, shut down companies that hire illegal immigrants... these will insure that nobody wants to come here illegally...
Racism is one of those things that has to go away with time... people may have ridden horses for centuries but people are driving cars now... its something that takes time and will go away as our society develops... you can't "force" behavioral changes just like you can't simply invent a car in 200 B.C.... no matter how much you like to... it takes time and we just have to accept that these things are going to fade away with time... it is fading, we just got to give it time...
I guess I just would like to see a solution that works for everyone and does as little damage to peoples' lives as possible. Illegal immigration should be put in check. I was hoping to see more solutions that put more thought into the lives of everyone involved.
I agree with you. However, your sentiments would have been more appropriate 20 or 30 years ago. Now, much time has gone by, what might have been settled easily is now going to be far more painful. Recall that we've had a NUMBER of amnesties...each one SUPPOSED to settle the problem for 'once and for all'.....need I say more?
I guess I just would like to see a solution that works for everyone and does as little damage to peoples' lives as possible. Illegal immigration should be put in check. I was hoping to see more solutions that put more thought into the lives of everyone involved.
There have been quite a few solutions presented, perhaps they just do not jibe with what you perceive as humane?
Frankly, there is no solution to make everybody happy when the two sides (illegal aliens and citizens) have two very different goals.
Well unfortunately 70% of the people here are one of those people who "agrees" with everything but has no mind or says "YEAH DEPORT THEM! or HAMMER TIME!"
As far as "Hammer Time" goes, I can't comment, as I'm not sure what that means....but as far as "Deport them", OK, I'll respond. How about we don't deport ALL illegals, but rather set a cutoff date..for example, we deport all illegals with less than six years residence in the US..fair enough? YOU may think so, but I can assure you many would not find that acceptable. They'd still say it was "unfair, cruel, harsh, and racist"...if not worse.
In fact, if you said "OK, we'll only deport those with less than FIVE years here", that still wouldn't be accepted. "Less than FOUR years"? Nope. "Three years?" Still 'nope'. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if you offered to deport ONLY those illegals who had arrived here in the last SIX MONTHS, that would STILL be seen by many as "unfair, cruel, racist," etc etc etc
In other words, you CAN'T do ANYTHING about illegal immigrants that will not be criticized loudly by those who disagree. Therefore, at some point, we have to 'do the right thing' and simply disregard those 'nay-sayers'.
I remind you once again of our SEVERAL past amnesties..they were EACH touted as being the 'solution' to the problem, and as 'fair'. If that was the case, then why are people STILL mad today? Answer? Because they're not interested in what's 'fair' for American society, or even 'fair' to former illegals...they're interested in 'what they can get' for themselves, today. And that's not fair to the REST of us.
So what's the humane and true solution to illegal immigration?
Deport them all and get the wall up and stop allowing them into our country. That will force them to do something about their own damn country. BTW, many do act like animals. In fact, we are all animals, human, but animals nonetheless. Like I told you in another reply to you, your name fits you.
Deport them all and get the wall up and stop allowing them into our country. That will force them to do something about their own damn country. BTW, many do act like animals. In fact, we are all animals, human, but animals nonetheless. Like I told you in another reply to you, your name fits you.
Think about that for a moment... I think the number of illegal immigrants is tallied at somewhere near 12 million. How many US citizens would be negatively affected by 12 million consumers and employees being deported all of the sudden? How many small businesses - restaurants, service shops, grocery stores, etc - would go out of business? How much would the cost of goods and housing go up with labor costs rising? How much would the government lose in income taxes? How much would be lost on sales taxes and local taxes? How many children would be without parents, thus bringing about more broken families, increasing crime, and adding further stress to our already ailing social services? Stop and think about everything that would be negatively affected by a mass deportation of 12 million people.... is it enough to offset the potential benefits? Show me all the data you're basing your theory on. It must be extremely complete data.
Who does my screen name fit best?
Last edited by Ludachris; 09-05-2008 at 09:26 PM..
As far as "Hammer Time" goes, I can't comment, as I'm not sure what that means....but as far as "Deport them", OK, I'll respond. How about we don't deport ALL illegals, but rather set a cutoff date..for example, we deport all illegals with less than six years residence in the US..fair enough? YOU may think so, but I can assure you many would not find that acceptable. They'd still say it was "unfair, cruel, harsh, and racist"...if not worse.
In fact, if you said "OK, we'll only deport those with less than FIVE years here", that still wouldn't be accepted. "Less than FOUR years"? Nope. "Three years?" Still 'nope'. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if you offered to deport ONLY those illegals who had arrived here in the last SIX MONTHS, that would STILL be seen by many as "unfair, cruel, racist," etc etc etc
In other words, you CAN'T do ANYTHING about illegal immigrants that will not be criticized loudly by those who disagree. Therefore, at some point, we have to 'do the right thing' and simply disregard those 'nay-sayers'.
I remind you once again of our SEVERAL past amnesties..they were EACH touted as being the 'solution' to the problem, and as 'fair'. If that was the case, then why are people STILL mad today? Answer? Because they're not interested in what's 'fair' for American society, or even 'fair' to former illegals...they're interested in 'what they can get' for themselves, today. And that's not fair to the REST of us.
You make some good points. Thanks for being one of the few reasonable people in this discussion, even if we don't necessarily agree on everything.
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