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Therein lies the difference. What I find most hypocritical about this situation is that it is a known fact that many of them have no problem leaving wives and children back in Mexico. Most of the aforementioned come here with the deliberate intent to give birth, shack up and in some cases marry without divorcing the spouse they left behind, l in order to avoid deportation by claiming they are rooted in the community. There is nothing lower than using your own children as a source of income or as an anchor to garner sympathy against deportation.
IMHO, it doesn't get any lower or more disgusting than that.
The big difference between the immigrants then and now is that there were no handouts to them like there are now. The early immigrants had to make their own way. Not so now. They would assimilate if the entitlement mentality, the accommodation mentality and all the social programs were done away with. You are right about slowing down the process--to a very, very, very slow crawl. Very harsh punishment for the exploiters/coyotes who could care less about the welfare of the illegals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio
You can't keep them out, only slow down the process like you said. It's better to try then not to.
Strict measures. Fine employers who hire illegals and the whole shabang. Fuel a guest worker program, a law saying that if you are caught illegally you will be deported and will not qualify for the guest worker program for 10 years. If chosen to self-deport, you can still apply with no reprocussions.
The Government is in it for the will of the companies-- not the people.
I believe that to be normal. Ben Franklin hated germans and hated they were not learning english, nor assimilating. They assimilated. They learned English. They became Americans. Who's to say these immigrants won't in a few generations?
Depending on what status you apply to get your immigration will determine how much it will cost. For me to apply and get accepted cost around $2400. I also brought my daughter over so that included her too. For just me would have cost about $1200. You also have to prove that you are solvent and that the person bringing you into the country can support you without you needing Govt help.
Depending on what status you apply to get your immigration will determine how much it will cost. For me to apply and get accepted cost around $2400. I also brought my daughter over so that included her too. For just me would have cost about $1200. You also have to prove that you are solvent and that the person bringing you into the country can support you without you needing Govt help.
My father went through that back in 1951 when he was a DP in post war Germany---------the man fled Hungary in 1948 for political reasons.
Apparently it sucked to be the son of a (deceased) lieutenant governor of a county in the eyes of the Communists.
As a mother, there is no way I would leave my child. Of course, I didn’t give birth to him for personal gain, as so many do.
Wow... having babies for "personal gain". You sure do have a harsh view of these people, that's for sure. Here I thought they were having babies to have a family, and yes, they probably also wanted their child to have the same rights as you and I so that they can be better off when they grow up. Similar to why I work so hard, so that my daughter can have so many things I didn't. But to think they're only having kids for personal gain....
I guess the fact that I grew up with very little might give me a slightly different perspective than some here. I benefited from the American Dream and I am grateful for the opportunities. I guess I just don't feel the overwhelming sense of entitlement just because my family has been here for over a hundred years that some obviously feel. I tend to have more compassion for those who are struggling and are doing whatever they can for their family, no matter what their citizenship. Not that I think it's okay to break immigration laws, but I guess it's easier for me to understand why they do it without thinking immediately casting them off as criminals.
And I don't think they come here solely to have babies for personal gain or to suck us dry. That's such a horrible way to view it. Seriously. How are you able to draw such a distinct line between a US citizen and another human being? The term "anchor babies" is thrown around here so easily, with no regard. It's amazing to me. But I guess I shouldn't be all that surprised. Not that I think priority should be given to a non-citizen, but to not care at all just seems extremely harsh. I guess this is no different than what man has always done in the past.
I am proud to be an American, and part of what makes me proud is our history of compassion and strength. I do care about getting our citizens to work and getting them health care, and getting them educated. But I don't think that just completely discarding other human beings lives is the only way to achieve that.
In any event, some of you will think I'm crazy or a bleeding heart, I'm sure. Just as I think some might be blinded with anger and maybe a hint of arrogance and a sense of entitlement. But I truly believe there is a solution that can favor most involved. And I don't think everyone has to be deported to improve things. We will have to agree to disagree on a few points, no doubt. This is a divisive issue and some people have extremely harsh views. I came in to this forum to try and learn and understand some of those views. It was good debating with some of you and I've learned a good amount from everyone.
Thanks for keeping it civil for the most part, even when you disagreed with my comments. At least we didn't get too much into personal attacks, which I've seen happen so often with this subject.
Cheers.
Last edited by Ludachris; 09-06-2008 at 12:48 PM..
Therein lies the difference. What I find most hypocritical about this situation is that it is a known fact that many of them have no problem leaving wives and children back in Mexico. Most of the aforementioned come here with the deliberate intent to give birth, shack up and in some cases marry without divorcing the spouse they left behind, l in order to avoid deportation by claiming they are rooted in the community. There is nothing lower than using your own children as a source of income or as an anchor to garner sympathy against deportation.
IMHO, it doesn't get any lower or more disgusting than that.
And I think that is horrible as well. I just think you're wrong to assume that "Most of the aforementioned come here with the deliberate intent to give birth". How can you possibly know that?
I lived in San Jose for most of my life, and you come across a LOT of illegal immigrants there. If you talked with any of them, you might have a slightly different opinion.
Depending on what status you apply to get your immigration will determine how much it will cost. For me to apply and get accepted cost around $2400. I also brought my daughter over so that included her too. For just me would have cost about $1200. You also have to prove that you are solvent and that the person bringing you into the country can support you without you needing Govt help.
So you have to have a good chunk of change to get in here legally, especially if you have a family. Not something the poor would probably be able to afford. Good insight, thanks.
So you have to have a good chunk of change to get in here legally, especially if you have a family. Not something the poor would probably be able to afford. Good insight, thanks.
This is why a guest worker program is more favorable.
It's not cheap. They also want to know the ins and outs of a ducks a**. I was lucky that my wife and i have been married for a few years so it made it easier. If you have only recently married an American Citizen it is harder and more scrutiny.
And I think that is horrible as well. I just think you're wrong to assume that "Most of the aforementioned come here with the deliberate intent to give birth". How can you possibly know that?
I lived in San Jose for most of my life, and you come across a LOT of illegal immigrants there. If you talked with any of them, you might have a slightly different opinion.
The problem is that Mexico has been allowed to act like a brat..........maybe if its citizens were forced to fight for their rights (no more safety valve 'hopping the fence' into the USA)----------then the elite there would be have to listen or risk civil war.
Again; using Spain as the proxy; when Franco was in power..........the West pretty much kept the falangists (sp) in the corner like an insolent 3 YO child.
Once Franco died; his facist movement died quickly, the (constitutional) monarchy was restored, etc.
Translation: Spain bucked up, took responsibility for itself then was rewarded with the keys to the candy store (EU membership, use of the Euro and the Schengen Agreement).
Spain 'paid' a price in having to junk major aspects of its Hispanic culture in order to have the freedoms/affluence/social stability of Scandinavia-----------oh well.
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