Immigration Policy Needs To Be Appropriately Reformed (medical, H1B, visas)
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A couple of preconditions to this spiel:
1) Yes, I am a liberal
2) I recognize the wants and desires of those wishing to come to this country as well as any of those people do, because I was once one of them
3) I'd really like it if, in this thread, we don't demonize illegal aliens. They don't want to purposely hurt you or me or anybody else (in general).
Now that those few things are out of the way, I'd like to elaborate on what I, as a legal alien, would like to see changed in the interests of both myself and the country I wish to be integrated into. Just a few points, I'd like to see some feedback.
First, the most harsh penalties for those who employ any illegal alien and pay them less than minimum wage. These people profit from people who are breaking the law. Illegal aliens can forge documents and commit fraud to convince employers they are legally here, and many do... however, many don't have to because employers don't demand proper credentials, and that is the first order of business in turning the tide on this problem. Those illegal aliens should be held accountable for their fraud, because it is a real crime. But those employers allowing under-the-table work should be told they are at risk of losing their business.
Second, the family clause. A lot of you are very concerned about the drain on taxpayer dollars that aliens (and let's face it, legal or not) bring to the system. We don't want people immigrating here, legally or illegally, and bringing in unskilled drains on the US economy. We need to abolish that- immigration should be on a case by case basis with the exception of spouses and children of legal immigrants. The reason I say this is because plenty of American families live thousands of miles away from their relatives without it being cost-prohibitive, and on that same token I believe it is prudent that a brother who wants to visit his sister should not be allowed to simply immigrate here to do so. We don't need to import families, nor should we. They can visit for a couple of months, but I don't think that it is necessary for them to move here unless they provide benefits to society.
A generous example of the above is a medical doctor whose parents have no credentials which are useful to the US economy. They may come here and not be able to work, or may be low income and drain medicaid, social security or other social services under the current system. Why is that? It doesn't seem reasonable to me. Why is there this inherent entitlement to the families of individuals who are here because of their own merits, not because of their family's.
Third, the introduction of a skill-based pathway to legal immigration. Kind of like Australia- the demand of different industries is measured and people with skillsets that satisfy those industries are admitted on temporary work permits (with the option of extending those work permits should the demand remain or should the company they work for sponsor them on a permanent visa plan). The pay should be equal to that of any US citizen- by this I mean a guy working here as a programmer from Canada (or India, or any other country) should not be allowed to take a $5k/yr lower salary so that in return he can immigrate here. It should be based on skill and professionalism, not lower wages for the company sponsoring.
I think that if there were an overhaul of this immigration system, some of the problems with legal immigration would be solved, and so would some of the problems with illegal immigration.
I agree with everything you said--adding, in the last instance, that no pathway to citizenship should be possible. Part of the problem now is that people want to go to college here, and once they are admitted they have no intention of leaving, and we have made college a very effective means through which they work they system.
In the final analysis, the U.S. doesn't owe anybody the right to immigrate.
I agree with everything you said--adding, in the last instance, that no pathway to citizenship should be possible. Part of the problem now is that people want to go to college here, and once they are admitted they have no intention of leaving, and we have made college a very effective means through which they work they system.
In the final analysis, the U.S. doesn't owe anybody the right to immigrate.
I think there could be reasonable exceptions to this rule. Particularly in the healthcare department (easy for me to say since that is my path of choosing), because there is such a shortage of doctors and pharmacists that having some people from outside the country come in, educate themselves on the laws and workings of the system, and then employing them to serve the US public is actually in the best interests of both parties. In healthcare, it's in the best interest of the public that there are an adequate number of professionals rather than too few, as too few drives up the cost of services while at the same time diminishes the quality of services.
The same doesn't go for many jobs which are not in as high demand, like IT. I think that the USCIS has actually recognized this, as there are extensions available on Optional Practical Training (OPT) which allow certain majors to extend their stay in a search for employment in industries which are currently lacking an adequate employee pool(with the end goal of obtaining an H1B visa I would think).
Anyway, the immigration system is working just fine. We don't need to be letting immigrants chain migrate to this country and burdening every institution. I say we let people come here on work visas for a certain while, and then force them back to their countries of origin after say 10 years. Then we can get the labor, they can get paid and return to their families and country. The United Arab Emirates does this, and they are thriving.
Anyway, the immigration system is working just fine. We don't need to be letting immigrants chain migrate to this country and burdening every institution.
The system already does by allowing family sponsorship- I will refer you to my above question?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleWA
I say we let people come here on work visas for a certain while, and then force them back to their countries of origin after say 10 years. Then we can get the labor, they can get paid and return to their families and country. The United Arab Emirates does this, and they are thriving.
You won't be taking my services without me being with my family for that time period, that's for sure. You want my services and ingenuity and knowledge within pharmaceutical research and all you can offer is me being displaced from my family for 10 years? Your thinking is totally unfit for the United States, whose tradition it is to invite those who can better society to US shores to help develop the country to its maximum potential.
Hate to tell you, but if you were born anywhere else, you wouldn't make the boat, buddy, based on your incredulously stupid answers alone. What industry do you work in?
The system already does by allowing family sponsorship- I will refer you to my above question?
You won't be taking my services without me being with my family for that time period, that's for sure. You want my services and ingenuity and knowledge within pharmaceutical research and all you can offer is me being displaced from my family for 10 years? Your thinking is totally unfit for the United States, whose tradition it is to invite those who can better society to US shores to help develop the country to its maximum potential.
Hate to tell you, but if you were born anywhere else, you wouldn't make the boat, buddy, based on your incredulously stupid answers alone. What industry do you work in?
Moderator cut: orphaned
The system needs to be changed to disallow chain migration. We don't need boat loads of people coming with each immigrant we allow into our country, especially the temporary workers. Also, if you don't want to work in America without making demands then you can stay in the third world cesspool which you came from. We can find millions of others who would be more then willing to replace you.
The system needs to be changed to disallow chain migration. We don't need boat loads of people coming with each immigrant we allow into our country, especially the temporary workers.
For sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleWA
Also, if you don't want to work in America without making demands then you can stay in the third world cesspool which you came from. We can find millions of others who would be more then willing to replace you.
First of all, I don't come from a third world cesspool (though that is none of your business). Second of all, your companies asked me to work for you. I mean, hell, they ask second year pharmacy students to work for Rite-Aid in Maine, and give you a car to drive, a house to loan, a job to keep and free phone calls to their families.
Are you a doctor or a pharmacist or nurse, sir? What exactly are you doing to improve peoples' quality of life?
And I doubt you could find millions of people with a Ph. D in pharmacology. Try again chief, you aren't dealing with someone who wants to work in your local McDonald's. I can make quite likely four times what you make in a year in my home country- never mind what I can make in the US. You arrogantly assume that you are better than anyone who is trying to immigrate to your country, but you are by far the most irrational and mean-spirited individual who claims to be a US citizen I've encountered so far. Which says a lot about your country, but not much about you, you guttersniping twit.
p.s: If you need proof of my credentials I'll happily send a copy of my dissertation to you through postal mail. I think it's great when someone like you exposes himself as a fool who finds reasonable discussion impalpable and who would rather just harass and antagonize.
that is the first in a line of many assupmtions. if you are an immigrant you are obviously from a cesspool of a country.
either way good for you and your responses, very intelligent. but just get ready for this type of posters. not much substance to them, but they love to troll around here. we had a particularly viscious one. they are gone... for now.
keep up the great posting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil leftist dogma
Moderator cut: orphaned
First of all, I don't come from a third world cesspool (though that is none of your business).
I think it's great when someone like you exposes himself as a fool who finds reasonable discussion impalpable and who would rather just harass and antagonize.
The system already does by allowing family sponsorship- I will refer you to my above question?
You won't be taking my services without me being with my family for that time period, that's for sure. You want my services and ingenuity and knowledge within pharmaceutical research and all you can offer is me being displaced from my family for 10 years? Your thinking is totally unfit for the United States, whose tradition it is to invite those who can better society to US shores to help develop the country to its maximum potential.
Hate to tell you, but if you were born anywhere else, you wouldn't make the boat, buddy, based on your incredulously stupid answers alone. What industry do you work in?
Then leave.
IF that is the law, then either obey it or do not come here.
Last edited by andreabeth; 07-06-2009 at 11:59 AM..
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