Why do illegals want US to change? (visas, married, bias)
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geralizations in this post and in this thread are why i think an intelligent conversation can not be had here.
illegals have no desire to change? illegals can spit out a baby and be a king or queen?
thats garbage.
there was as much discontent with previous waves of immigrration as there is now. for the same reasons. perceived cleanliness, work ethic, motivation. its the same tired arguments rehashed.
have at it folks. complain about these people some more. its all new after all...
True to form, you continue to conflate legal immigrants with illegal aliens. I don’t believe anyone has denied, nor condoned, the harsh treatment ‘some’ previous immigrants received. However, we are NOT discussing legal immigration; we are discussing illegal aliens -- of whom NONE have a right to be here. I do not apologize for vehemently opposing thieves and fraudsters of ANY immigration status.
You are correct. We cannot engage in intelligent dialogue as long as you and others refuse to differentiate between LEGAL and ILLEGAL.
That fact is one of the biggest woes of illegal immigration as it is today. There is this "rolling block" of varied degrees of assimilation or the lack thereof. I have many friends that are Americans by various means, the 86 amnesty or the fact that they were born here even though their Parents and Grandparents are here illegally.
In most of the cases their Parents or Grandparents don't speak English at all. I would think that after being here for 20-30 years if they wanted to assimilate they would have by now.
My experience also. To some degree, recent Hispanic immigrants are the victims of their own overwhelming 'success'. They've arrived here in the past 2 decades or so in such enormous numbers that the sheer SIZE of the community retards assimilation. If a person arrives here speaking Finnish, he has little choice but to learn English, and fast, or find himself totally unable to function in society. The same holds true for most language groups...you either learn English, or you're left out.
Not so with Spanish. It's perfectly possible to get through the entire day here using only Spanish. Not as 'smooth' as English, but it can be done. Anyone not inclined to sit through an 'ESL' class after a hard day's work doesn't really have to. You're probably aware that Spanish-language TV and radio is HEAVY with ads featuring 'learn English' schemes. OK, if one has the money and the inclination...but not really neccessary. It's simply 'mathematics'..when a tiny 'minority' becomes a HUGE minority, it has enough 'critical mass' to begin operating on its own. Speakers of Tagalog, Urdu, and Pashto would have a tough time surviving in US society without some knowledge of English. Speakers of Spanish find it easy...and if 'survive' means only that one acquire low-skilled, low-income work, then it's VERY VERY easy.
not compounding the groups. i am very aware of the differences. and i referenced statements ABOUT illegals. dont know why you think i am grouping them together...maybe because that false accusation is your strongest argument.
my point is that i just dont believe what most of you beleive ABOUT illegals.
too many generalizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar
True to form, you continue to conflate legal immigrants with illegal aliens. I don’t believe anyone has denied, nor condoned, the harsh treatment ‘some’ previous immigrants received. However, we are NOT discussing legal immigration; we are discussing illegal aliens -- of whom NONE have a right to be here. I do not apologize for vehemently opposing thieves and fraudsters of ANY immigration status.
You are correct. We cannot engage in intelligent dialogue as long as you and others refuse to differentiate between LEGAL and ILLEGAL.
not compounding the groups. i am very aware of the differences. and i referenced statements ABOUT illegals. dont know why you think i am grouping them together...maybe because that false accusation is your strongest argument.
my point is that i just dont believe what most of you beleive ABOUT illegals.
too many generalizations.
False accusations? Hardly. That is the staple of the pro-illegal movement.
It’s ok if you don’t share our opinion of illegal aliens. That’s one of many freedoms we enjoy in this country.
A lot of them have less than a third grade education and really don't put two and two together. They simply do whatever is easiest to do.
In the past immigration took some effort, it meant saying good by to family and friends, starting a new life
I learned English as a second language(as a teenager, not a child) and I'm probably one of those recent immigrants you are referring to. According to your definition I'm not able to put 2+2 together. However I can put good and bye together and even spell "goodbye" correctly with the "e" at the end. Also I know the phrase is "they simply do whatever is easier" not "easiest" If I were you, I wouldn't be calling people ignorant and uneducated.
My experience also. To some degree, recent Hispanic immigrants are the victims of their own overwhelming 'success'. They've arrived here in the past 2 decades or so in such enormous numbers that the sheer SIZE of the community retards assimilation. If a person arrives here speaking Finnish, he has little choice but to learn English, and fast, or find himself totally unable to function in society. The same holds true for most language groups...you either learn English, or you're left out.
Not so with Spanish. It's perfectly possible to get through the entire day here using only Spanish. Not as 'smooth' as English, but it can be done. Anyone not inclined to sit through an 'ESL' class after a hard day's work doesn't really have to. You're probably aware that Spanish-language TV and radio is HEAVY with ads featuring 'learn English' schemes. OK, if one has the money and the inclination...but not really neccessary. It's simply 'mathematics'..when a tiny 'minority' becomes a HUGE minority, it has enough 'critical mass' to begin operating on its own. Speakers of Tagalog, Urdu, and Pashto would have a tough time surviving in US society without some knowledge of English. Speakers of Spanish find it easy...and if 'survive' means only that one acquire low-skilled, low-income work, then it's VERY VERY easy.
Why is it that you ignore the fact that it's more than rare that the children of Mexican immigrants who grow up here ALWAYS are English speakers.
Why do you mention speakers of Tagalog and Pashto, but not speakers of Cantonese, Mandarin, or Korean?
Omitting inconvenient facts like that shows how biased this tired old argument is as far as assimilation and language. Hispanics bad, everyone else good. BS.
Your claims have logic, but that doesn't make them right. If anything, it's theorizing, but it's just not reality. We don't have generations of Hispanics not learning English, and Hispanic immigrants aren't the only ones not speaking English off the boat.
Maybe in small towns where the only other immigrants you see besides Mexican workers are the local doctor and drycleaning shop owner, but when you go to the cities and visit Chinatown, Koreatown, etc, tell me what you see and hear.
True to form, you continue to conflate legal immigrants with illegal aliens. I don’t believe anyone has denied, nor condoned, the harsh treatment ‘some’ previous immigrants received. However, we are NOT discussing legal immigration; we are discussing illegal aliens -- of whom NONE have a right to be here. I do not apologize for vehemently opposing thieves and fraudsters of ANY immigration status.
You are correct. We cannot engage in intelligent dialogue as long as you and others refuse to differentiate between LEGAL and ILLEGAL.
Okay Benicar, I have a question for you. I am not grouping Illegal immigrants with Legal Immigrants but...I still fail to see your point.
What makes you think that psychologically illegal immigrants do not have the same motivational drive as legal immigrants? The majority of illegal immigrants are here on an expired visa which means that they were screened and allowed to come here for one reason or another LEGALLY.
Can you provide us with some Psychology journal with that information? Thanks
Why is it that you ignore the fact that it's more than rare that the children of Mexican immigrants who grow up here ALWAYS are English speakers.
Why do you mention speakers of Tagalog and Pashto, but not speakers of Cantonese, Mandarin, or Korean?
Omitting inconvenient facts like that shows how biased this tired old argument is as far as assimilation and language. Hispanics bad, everyone else good. BS.
Your claims have logic, but that doesn't make them right. If anything, it's theorizing, but it's just not reality. We don't have generations of Hispanics not learning English, and Hispanic immigrants aren't the only ones not speaking English off the boat.
Maybe in small towns where the only other immigrants you see besides Mexican workers are the local doctor and drycleaning shop owner, but when you go to the cities and visit Chinatown, Koreatown, etc, tell me what you see and hear.
And guess what: care to explain why Asian kids who arrive here age 12 or younger are almost always fluent English speakers by age 18 yet so many US born Latino kids still sound like they just immigrated here with their heavy accents?
And guess what: care to explain why Asian kids who arrive here age 12 or younger are almost always fluent English speakers by age 18 yet so many US born Latino kids still sound like they just immigrated here with their heavy accents?
Any stats, or just more of your anti-Latino sentiment?
Or wait..does your comment have to do with immigration?
Ignorant comment about Americans of Latino descent having "heavy accents like they just immigrated here". Perfect example for your posts. Unless you have a study that shows that, it sounds like you're just showing more of your prejudice.
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The Pot calling the Kettle Black
