Pension 101: Understanding The Illinois Government Pension Crisis (debt, worst)

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

The imrf pension system has worked fine for over 70 years with no problems. The employees and the cities both pay into it. Full r firemen the age (per the website) is age 67 (60 if you were hired before 2011). The downfall of it (for anyone with skills) for most people is that you have to roll the dice for 10 years (to be vested) before you can recoup anything from what the cities (maybe counties too) put in. You still wouldn't see anything compensation till age 67 but at least it is there.

WOW! Talk about making stuff up!

IMRF covers the NON-PUBLIC SAFETY municipal employees. https://www.imrf.org/en/about-imrf/g...mation/history
Illinois law requires each municipality of more than 5000 has its OWN pension board for police and firefighers -- Rising police, fire pension costs squeezing city budgets - News - The State Journal-Register - Springfield, IL

Vesting happens at 6 years of employement, except in the event of death when vesting happens after just 18 months --

esting; Withdrawal; Return to Service. A participant in the self-managed plan becomes fully vested in the employer contributions credited to his or her account in the self-managed plan on the earliest to occur of the following:
(1) completion of 6 years of service with the municipality; or
(2) the death of the participating employee while employed by the municipality, if the participant has completed at least 1.5 years of service

Benefits can begin at age 50 with 20 years of service --

A police officer age 50 or more with 20 or more years of creditable service, who is not a participant in the self-managed plan under Section 3-109.3 and who is no longer in service as a police officer, shall receive a pension

40*ILCS*5/*Illinois Pension Code.

[Liledgy]

Originally Posted by chet everett

WOW! Talk about making stuff up!

IMRF covers the NON-PUBLIC SAFETY municipal employees. https://www.imrf.org/en/about-imrf/g...mation/history
Illinois law requires each municipality of more than 5000 has its OWN pension board for police and firefighers -- Rising police, fire pension costs squeezing city budgets - News - The State Journal-Register - Springfield, IL

Vesting happens at 6 years of employement, except in the event of death when vesting happens after just 18 months --

Benefits can begin at age 50 with 20 years of service --

40*ILCS*5/*Illinois Pension Code.

Chet, auto correct changed what I wrote (fat fingers) I thought I typed "full retirement". The auto correct said "fireman". As ive said previously, there is NOTHING like a police or fire pension. I don't think I'm making anything up about the imrf.

[Bluefox]

At what point does it simply become a positive feedback loop? Up taxes, more people leave, increase taxes to cover the deficits, pushing more people out, raise taxes more, etc. It's like a huge dinner party where the menu prices go up after everyone has ordered, so some trickle out and the remaining people get slapped with even higher prices, so they leave until there is nobody left to pay the bill. IL is already shelling out tens of millions in tax breaks and incentives just to keep the companies they already have. Bankruptcy seems to be the only way out. I don't see how IL can tax its way out of this mess without taxing its tax base right out of the state. This is why crooks and criminals like Madigan have fatally wounded IL.

[Liledgy]

As I said earlier I was specifically talking about imrf not playing police and fire. I can't argue about vesting after 6 years as private industry if 5 years. But fire and police have things (Kickers) that no one else has and the people that know are afraid to talk about it (like when the spouse or pensioner dies there's no reduction in pension, types dally it's 50% reduction) or when averaging a pension (my private pensions are highest annual average of 3 of last 10 years), imrf is average of highest 4 consecutive years in the final 10. Police and fire are based on there last day with a one rank promotion!
Anyway, back to my original post about imrf. It's very well funded, unfortunately it got intertwined with the other public pensions. Per imrf, the cities pay 8-10% of an employees salary into the fund, the employee pays 4.75%. My employer (contractor) pays 12% into an annuity and 13% into a defined benefit (pension), I also am able to carry over almost 7000 hours of healthcare hours that translates into over 3 years of medical coverage till I hit Medicare. Bottom line, there is better (much) retirement plans than the public sector. I have a feeling I am far from being alone, I'm just willing to talk about it.

[civis]

Originally Posted by Fta23457

First you have to tax everyone into poverty & homelessness. Then you close down all the schools and services.
Then after all that is done maybe Congress will authorize bankruptcy.
Glad we got out

IL total public debt to GDP ratio is lower than many states in NE, like NY, MA etc., so I think you are over-dramatizing or they will have to declare bankruptcy first.

[flyingcat2k]

Originally Posted by civis

IL total public debt to GDP ratio is lower than many states in NE, like NY, MA etc., so I think you are over-dramatizing or they will have to declare bankruptcy first.

The issue is that in the next 10 years, the state will only be able to fund pension payments. IL did pass a bill ending COLAs and capped payouts in 2013 but was overturned. The IL Supreme Court (brought to you by Madigan) ruled that the pensions must continue automatic COLA increases AND continue to use the existing means to define the payout. Unfortunately, unless a Constitutional Amendment comes out of the legislature, we are stuck. Madigan won't stand for it so our only option is bankruptcy is the only option as a bankruptcy judge or panel would be able to change the terms of the pension "contract."

[MrSirfellow]

Originally Posted by chet everett

There was never a time when Illinois governmental workers paid into Federal Social Security. Any honest analysis of Illinois various pension funds shows they were NEVER "fully funded" in an actuarial sense -- the reason they could afford their imbalance had more to do with the SHORT lifespans of retirees than any made-up shift in who was footing the bill.

Statewide panels / commissions going back to at least William Stratton's era in the 1950s understood the problem of shortfalls in the pension funds. The wording of the 1970 Illinois Constitution was chosen to impress upon lawmakers that they were creating contractural obligations. Tellingly there was no corresponding plan of funding...

During the Thompson administration (which lasted 1977-1991, first term was two years as state re-aligned elections) the state pension accounting switched from "pay-go" to more normal accrued liability. The shifts in returns and increased longevity should have been met with efforts to set aside more reserves but short sighted politicians from both parties have preferred to assume somebody else will pony up the cash.

I paid into both working for the state - have the pay stubs to prove it. There were also older co-workers who grandfathered in who were pure state pension....rather like railroad workers who were originally exempted from Federal SS. Those people paid double the amount that later people paid...(about 10% into state pension). I also have specific recollection of how the contract negotiations progressed that resulted in the state picking up the employee portion of the pension contribution. State employees got no annual increase for 2 years in trade for that.

[ABUV]

There are dudes, men, age 50+ who play softball while I am at work in the park. Nobody with a job could do that and it is -
BS.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by ABUV

There are dudes, men, age 50+ who play softball while I am at work in the park. Nobody with a job could do that and it is -
BS.

I have relatives that are cops and they specifically moved to Las Vegas or Scottsdale so that they would not be taunting their non-city worker neighbors -- to see 'em hauling their golf clubs around while the working stiffs dumb enough to work for a every other firm have to bust their butt for another 20 years or so was too cruel...

[Maintainschaos]

Oh goodie...now people know the motives and the means behind when and why people take time off and what they do with it.