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I'll probably get flamed for this, but Zionsville is inevitably going to have a great school system because of its lack of diversity--it is rich, white, and college educated. All of the kids come from families with college ambitions; virtually none of them are first-generation college bound because everyone in the area comes from families who went to college. The top school systems in the nation have demographics similar to Zionsville--even if Zionsville cut its school funding in half, the ISTEP scores and graduation results would be about the same.
Lawrence Township Schools by that same token cover a much broader array of socioeconomics. My suspicion is there are plenty of excellent and committed teachers there, some of whom were teaching 20 years ago when the school system was highly rated and 95% white, but the numbers aren't going to rate as highly these days, as Indianapolis' racial minority and foreign born population have ballooned. Nothing against these populations, but it is far harder to teach a heterogeneous population; why else would a country like Iceland always have such great educational test scores? English as a Learned Language (ELL) programs in the township schools are are robust because they have to be; school systems like Zionsville have small programs (if they need one at all) because any minority family who can afford to move to Zionsville already speaks good English.
Domergurl made a good point--it's often about how much you value diversity. If diversity can wait until college, then Zionsville is a sure bet for a good primary education. High school in Lawrence Township will have racial and socioeconomic diversity (the latter of which you might not get in college), which may prove highly beneficial for dealing with life down the road, since, unless we all move to places like Zionsville, we do have to bump shoulders with the plebeians now and then. Probably 40% or so of children at Lawrence Township schools go on to college; about 90% in Zionsville do. Since only about 30% of all Americans have a college education, you can guess which school system is more reflective of the greater American population at large.
If the quality of the schools is your highest priority - then go with Zionsville, over Lawrence township. Although Carmel and Hamilton SER (Fishers) are I think just as good as Zionsville
The posts here about the Marion county township schools vs. Fishers, Carmel and Zionsville are eye-opening for me. I'm moving to the Lawrence area for a new job, and am considering the surrounding communities. The realtor I've talked to is encouraging me to stay in the Fishers and Carmel areas instead of the east Marion county areas with the township schools, and the west Hancock county areas. I have no problem with diversity but want to live in a stable neighborhood with good resale value (I have no kids).
I had figured the east Marion county homes were far enough out that they would be stable areas. The last thing I want is to buy a home where values continue to decline. I'm moving from the Detroit area where my current house has lost about 35% of its value.
I'll probably get flamed for this, but Zionsville is inevitably going to have a great school system because of its lack of diversity--it is rich, white, and college educated. All of the kids come from families with college ambitions; virtually none of them are first-generation college bound because everyone in the area comes from families who went to college. The top school systems in the nation have demographics similar to Zionsville--even if Zionsville cut its school funding in half, the ISTEP scores and graduation results would be about the same.
Lawrence Township Schools by that same token cover a much broader array of socioeconomics. My suspicion is there are plenty of excellent and committed teachers there, some of whom were teaching 20 years ago when the school system was highly rated and 95% white, but the numbers aren't going to rate as highly these days, as Indianapolis' racial minority and foreign born population have ballooned. Nothing against these populations, but it is far harder to teach a heterogeneous population; why else would a country like Iceland always have such great educational test scores? English as a Learned Language (ELL) programs in the township schools are are robust because they have to be; school systems like Zionsville have small programs (if they need one at all) because any minority family who can afford to move to Zionsville already speaks good English.
Domergurl made a good point--it's often about how much you value diversity. If diversity can wait until college, then Zionsville is a sure bet for a good primary education. High school in Lawrence Township will have racial and socioeconomic diversity (the latter of which you might not get in college), which may prove highly beneficial for dealing with life down the road, since, unless we all move to places like Zionsville, we do have to bump shoulders with the plebeians now and then. Probably 40% or so of children at Lawrence Township schools go on to college; about 90% in Zionsville do. Since only about 30% of all Americans have a college education, you can guess which school system is more reflective of the greater American population at large.
The posts here about the Marion county township schools vs. Fishers, Carmel and Zionsville are eye-opening for me. I'm moving to the Lawrence area for a new job, and am considering the surrounding communities. The realtor I've talked to is encouraging me to stay in the Fishers and Carmel areas instead of the east Marion county areas with the township schools, and the west Hancock county areas. I have no problem with diversity but want to live in a stable neighborhood with good resale value (I have no kids).
I had figured the east Marion county homes were far enough out that they would be stable areas. The last thing I want is to buy a home where values continue to decline. I'm moving from the Detroit area where my current house has lost about 35% of its value.
The posts here about the Marion county township schools vs. Fishers, Carmel and Zionsville are eye-opening for me. I'm moving to the Lawrence area for a new job, and am considering the surrounding communities. The realtor I've talked to is encouraging me to stay in the Fishers and Carmel areas instead of the east Marion county areas with the township schools, and the west Hancock county areas. I have no problem with diversity but want to live in a stable neighborhood with good resale value (I have no kids).
I had figured the east Marion county homes were far enough out that they would be stable areas. The last thing I want is to buy a home where values continue to decline. I'm moving from the Detroit area where my current house has lost about 35% of its value.
Lou
Indianapolis is not Detroit. Despite the State of Indiana's many economic woes, unemployment in Indianapolis is lower than the national average, and the region as a whole is still very strong. The Brookings Institution places it as one of the regions most likely to recover quickly from the recession. You probably can observe that in Detroit, even the wealthy, desirable suburbs with good schools are seriously losing property value right now--people are just fleeing the region.
Your realtor is right to a certain degree, especially when you factor in the schools (which I talked about earlier). But to make it sound like all is doom and gloom in Lawrence is really absurd, and quite sad for others to be defending this portrayal. The only area of Lawrence Township that is in bad shape for the foreseeable future is Pendleton Pike and southward. 56th Street around the old Fort Ben has redeveloped into a community with architectural interest. North of Fort Ben State Park and east of it (the area known as Oaklandon) are both solidly middle and upper middle class. The homes are older but well built, the trees are mature, crime is very low, and the area has what most would perceive as far more "character" than Fishers, which is a very young suburb.
Fishers has great schools right now. If you don't have children, this is not an issue. But if people continue to perceive all of Marion County as disposable, the demand WILL go down in those nice areas of Lawrence Township along with the schools, and all the problems that Lawrence Township schools are facing (still minor compared to IPS) will gravitate out to Hamilton and Hendricks Counties. Then realtors will be telling everyone to stay away from Fishers because only Noblesville has good schools. And the cycle continues.
Indianapolis metro homes IN GENERAL have low resale value compared to the national average (this includes Carmel and Fishers) because a cultural attitude favoring new new new and outward sprawl at the expense of homes that are older than, say, 30 years. Demand to live in metro Indianapolis is high, but everyone is gravitating to new construction so there's a steady supply to meet the demand. When supply continues to meet demand (instead of demand outpacing supply), values are unlikely to increase very much. Much of this new construction, though, emphasizes big and cheap so these homes often fail to resell even at their original value just five years later, because they're so badly built. Even in the best of times, Indianapolis homeowners in nice neighborhoods wouldn't see appreciation the way you would in a similarly nice neighborhood in metro Detroit.
"Much of this new construction, though, emphasizes big and cheap so these homes often fail to resell even at their original value just five years later, because they're so badly built."
My realtor mentioned that new homes have been built east into Hancock County just before the recent bust. I believe she said she believed they tended to be cheaply built. Perhaps another argument for favoring the Fishers, Carmel and other established Hamilton County communities.
One house I'm coming to Indy tomorrow to look at in Fishers (asking around $180k) - the property tax was listed at being around $950 a year. Unless it is a mistake, it is so much lower that what I've been used to seeing in Detroit and Cincinnati. I also checked the annual taxes for some similarly-priced homes in Marion and Hancock counties. The Marion homes were around $2000 a year, the Hancock somewhat higher, maybe $3000 a year. Interesting. Can anybody say what areas might see the fastest climb in property taxes?
"Much of this new construction, though, emphasizes big and cheap so these homes often fail to resell even at their original value just five years later, because they're so badly built."
My realtor mentioned that new homes have been built east into Hancock County just before the recent bust. I believe she said she believed they tended to be cheaply built. Perhaps another argument for favoring the Fishers, Carmel and other established Hamilton County communities.
One house I'm coming to Indy tomorrow to look at in Fishers (asking around $180k) - the property tax was listed at being around $950 a year. Unless it is a mistake, it is so much lower that what I've been used to seeing in Detroit and Cincinnati. I also checked the annual taxes for some similarly-priced homes in Marion and Hancock counties. The Marion homes were around $2000 a year, the Hancock somewhat higher, maybe $3000 a year. Interesting. Can anybody say what areas might see the fastest climb in property taxes?
Lou
I sent you a direct message ... over there on your upper right.
Our house is 1000 sq ft bigger, smaller lot, and our taxes dropped $800 a year. Not surprised by the difference you are seeing. There are so many properties in Marion County that aren't taxed (vacant, past due) and so much more infrastructure to support.
On another note, are insurance bill (home, auto) was around $800 cheaper a year as well.
I am looking forward to lower insurance and property tax rates. Auto insurance in the Detroit area is one of the highest in the nation - I now pay about $1200 a year full coverage on my one car, I have a clean record and am over 50. My current home's year tax is over $3500.
Lou
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