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they go up in bad economy and down in good economy (used to be contrarian indicator to economy).
i hate those from moral point of view since IMHO they are POS that provide shi*t education and get students in to debt. hardly few students come out on top from those.
would stay away. i am trader (put up roughly 2-3k trades a year). if you want to know my qualification.
Shorting them is a VERY smart move but you have to get in early. Looks like apol took a -20% hit today but you could look at the other for-profits and short them now.
The *** is already up for them. Most of the students going to these schools are dummies to begin with and HEAVILY rely on federal student loans. The government was going to put a stop to it last year but they delayed it (due to heavy lobbying by the for-profits). However, eventually the for-profits will not meet the higher guidelines set by the government to qualify for the federal student loan programs. Once that happens, it is game over for the for-profits. Right now, enrollment is dropping due to people just realizing that these schools are scams. Once the new guidelines kick in (if they are passed) then enrollment will fall off a cliff. I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years UoP goes bust and closes the entire school down.
If the government ever gets smart and stops subsidizing these crappy schools, its the end.
I wouldn't get involved simply because at some point the general public will wise up, the government will act in the best interest's of its citizens, or the market will get over saturated. Not to mention the moral issues (these companies basically profit off people who are poor and/or stupid).
I don't agree with all the rhetoric against places like UOP. Many no ALL colleges are now offering more and more classes on line. I think colleges like Penn State you can get an associates on line.
How does living in a dorm and going on anal drinking binges help you learn? I watched my sister in law go through one of these on line schools and if anything it was harder, she had to be a self starter as there was no instructor to run to every time she had to get something done. She had to regulate her time very closely to get her work done and take tests.
Colleges for profit and not for profit will give you college credits for "life experience" I think what is going on is that many people can not wrap their head around the idea that you can sit in your home and learn, that it takes sitting in a brick and mortar building with some instructor that may or may not even be a good teacher for a person to learn.
I think any learning institution will give a person what they put into it. I have personally learned more about history watching the history channel and history documentary's than all the history lessons I took in school put together and have a much better grasp of the concepts of history because of them. I learned more about the American Civil War by watching Ken Burns Doc, than any teacher could impart to me out of any book. If you watch that doc, twice and pay attention you will have a good grasp of the war, where and when it was fought and the complexities of the people who lived through it on both sides.
So no I don't agree with the idea that a for profit or more that its an on line university is an idea that is not worthy. More and more colleges are offering more and more classes on line. I can learn more from watching a YouTube video on how to change my oil than by reading ten books on the subject in some class room. This is by no means putting down B&M colleges. But times are changing and as CDs replaced records [and the vinyl nuts said it would never happen] and now MP3s replaced or are in process of replacing CDs things change.
So I don't know if for profit colleges are a good investment, but I don't agree that they are not a good place to get an associates deg. One other thing is that they are or UOP at least is Accredited, that means you can take your deg. to another college and use it to go on to your Batch deg. You may have to make up credits that are particular to that school but that is the case in any collage.
The instructors at UOP are not bums they picked up off the underpass and asked to teach a class on how to panhandle[which they do teach at some brick and mortar schools] They are People who are professors that have graduate degs. or doctorate's form a vast array of schools across the country.
As for the idiotic comment that these schools are for stupid and poor people, show you to be stupid. Many people who want to learn don't want to sit in a class with 18yos who are thinking of where the party is tonight and who am I going to hook up with than at home doing what? Taking care of a child or working a job and then coming home to take a class on Algebra? Is this the kind of "stupid" person you are talking about?
I think its just easy to take a shot at something you know little or nothing about.
It's not the "online" part of the for-profits that bother people. It's the fact that they will admit anyone without looking at their credentials or measuring their ability to actually succeed in the program. These programs also have questionable & often aggressive marketing and recruiting tactics that traditional schools do not. Then there is the questionable quality of the instructors and the programs offered that many employers take into consideration. If you have a Penn State online grad against a UOP grad, do you really think a potential employer will take the UOP grad all things being equal? What about a grad school considering someone for admission? Oh and let's not even mention the relatively high costs of a for-profit degree compared to most state schools, and even some private schools.
Some for-profits are better than others, but as someone who works in education, I would never advise someone to go to one when other schools are an option - and they almost always are. I also would never invest in one, to answer the OP.
It's not the "online" part of the for-profits that bother people. It's the fact that they will admit anyone without looking at their credentials or measuring their ability to actually succeed in the program. These programs also have questionable & often aggressive marketing and recruiting tactics that traditional schools do not. Then there is the questionable quality of the instructors and the programs offered that many employers take into consideration. If you have a Penn State online grad against a UOP grad, do you really think a potential employer will take the UOP grad all things being equal? What about a grad school considering someone for admission? Oh and let's not even mention the relatively high costs of a for-profit degree compared to most state schools, and even some private schools.
Some for-profits are better than others, but as someone who works in education, I would never advise someone to go to one when other schools are an option - and they almost always are. I also would never invest in one, to answer the OP.
Exactly. The for-profit schools are a ticking time bomb, I would only be looking at this sector for shorting. Eventually the gov't is going to crack down, it's a matter of time.
I remember hearing someone say this about for profits a couple years back: If a school has to buy TV ad space to convince people to go to their school, don't even bother with it. A school's academic record should be enough without flashy commercials.
I remember hearing someone say this about for profits a couple years back: If a school has to buy TV ad space to convince people to go to their school, don't even bother with it. A school's academic record should be enough without flashy commercials.
You have any idea how many millions each major university spends on flashy campaigns to get students? They may not advertise on TV to the same degree, but its a huge endeavor with dozens of staff members and huge budgets. All but the very cream of the crop do this, most with the assistance of taxpayers.
I think contrary to the dislike for the for profit colleges, there is a good opportunity for some to emerge. Right now its too easy to enter the game so a lot of me-too schools exist, but if you weed out the truly bad actors in time a handful will become at least somewhat respected institutions. The opportunity comes because the cost to attend a traditional school is just becoming insane and yet its hard to get into many of them. If a for profit school can offer a program for the same cost of an in-state program then it has a large pool of potential students to draw from, some who are getting rejected by state sponsored schools.
Is anybody investing in or trading in for-profit college stocks?
They seem to be a disaster waiting to happen. I'm thinking of shorting some of them (APOL, DV). What are your thoughts?
"Waiting" to happen? Jeez, take a look at some of the 1yr timelines on these stocks. If you wanted to go short, that ship sailed long ago. For some of these stocks, there's not much further down they can go.
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