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BTW, the BRICS group have invited 6 of the 40 nations that applied for membership to join as of January 1, 2024: Argentina, Ethiopia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the United Arab Emirates. That meets both China's goal of adding more, and India's goal of only adding slowly.
So now you have the two largest economies in South America (2021 GDP), and the 1st, 3rd, and 6th largest in Africa(2021 GDP) in a group with China and Russia.
Adding a total 6 members was surprising. I assumed just 2 maybe 3 would be invited. Assumed they would take a slow approach. Apparently 40 nations wanted to join, so very possible the group will continue to expand. Iran and Ethiopia are the surprises of the six that made the list. I guess Russia owed Iran a favor. Surprised there is no Indonesia. That country seems like a no brainer, but maybe they desired to remain neutral in all their affairs. With the addition of Saudi and Iran, BRICS now has 5 of the top 10 oil producing countries in the world. The expansion of BRICS is only further proof of the increasing multipolarity of the world.
Adding a total 6 members was surprising. I assumed just 2 maybe 3 would be invited. Assumed they would take a slow approach. Apparently 40 nations wanted to join, so very possible the group will continue to expand. Iran and Ethiopia are the surprises of the six that made the list. I guess Russia owed Iran a favor. Surprised there is no Indonesia. That country seems like a no brainer, but maybe they desired to remain neutral in all their affairs. With the addition of Saudi and Iran, BRICS now has 5 of the top 10 oil producing countries in the world. The expansion of BRICS is only further proof of the increasing multipolarity of the world.
Good question about Indonesia. I read the reasoning behind that decision just yesterday in The Star, Malaysia' primary English-language news site. (I lived in Malaysia for 17 years.)
Take a look at the linked article and pay particular attention to what Yose Rizal had to say near the end. E.g., Yose opined that the group was directionless, its objectives remained unclear and it was riddled with a “cohesion problem” precipitated by tensions between China and India, as well as Russia’s geopolitics.
“BRICS was formed because those countries were deemed to offer good prospects. [...] But the prophecy was wrong. None of the BRICS countries are performing well except for China and India,” Yose stated.
Kind of like not switching horses in the middle of the river if the other horse doesn't look very stable.
Good question about Indonesia. I read the reasoning behind that decision just yesterday in The Star, Malaysia' primary English-language news site. (I lived in Malaysia for 17 years.)
Take a look at the linked article and pay particular attention to what Yose Rizal had to say near the end. E.g., Yose opined that the group was directionless, its objectives remained unclear and it was riddled with a “cohesion problem” precipitated by tensions between China and India, as well as Russia’s geopolitics.
“BRICS was formed because those countries were deemed to offer good prospects. [...] But the prophecy was wrong. None of the BRICS countries are performing well except for China and India,” Yose stated.
Kind of like not switching horses in the middle of the river if the other horse doesn't look very stable.
So it sounds like Indonesia may have concluded there isn't much upside relative the potential drawbacks. Still think they would have been a perfect fit. They have good relations with the existing members. They are a commodities powerhouse and are strategically located. If expansion continues I would target Malaysia, Vietnam, and Ghana. Mexico would be nice but isn't going to ever happen considering its proximity to and trade relations with the U.S. Looking at a world map with the BRICS country highlighted. There is void in North America, Europe, and Oceania. Illustrates the splits happening in the world.
Russia has 2,298 tons of gold
China has 1,948 tons of gold
India has 795 tons of gold
Brazil has 129 tons of gold
S. Africa has 125 tons of gold.
The United States has 8,133 tons of gold....and most of the rest of the world stores their gold inside the US.
Does anyone really think they would send their country's gold to Russia or China?
I hope they do start it. It would be fun to see how long it takes for traders to setup a perpetual run on the central banks that are involved until the peg breaks.
Russia has 2,298 tons of gold
China has 1,948 tons of gold
India has 795 tons of gold
Brazil has 129 tons of gold
S. Africa has 125 tons of gold.
The United States has 8,133 tons of gold....and most of the rest of the world stores their gold inside the US.
Does anyone really think they would send their country's gold to Russia or China?
I hope they do start it. It would be fun to see how long it takes for traders to setup a perpetual run on the central banks that are involved until the peg breaks.
Where are those numbers from?
Your projecting because it's actually the US & associated countries that rob other countries gold.
Since this thread is about the BRICS+ meeting in South Africa, I don't know what artillery77 is getting at with that post. Is the USA now going to start settling its debt repayment with gold shipments? There are currently 10 countries with higher Fitch ratings on their debt than that of the USA.
As you pointed out in an earlier post, the BRICS aren't going to use any one of their national currencies as a reserve currency. That seems to be what the nay-sayers are projecting. Instead, they want to settle trade accounts between themselves using their own currencies, without going through the US$ as an intermediate.
Did you catch the speech from the South African president? He talked about the rich mineral resources available in Africa and how they want to go towards the export of value-added products, and away from "exporting sand and rock" (my paraphrase). In the USA, we have a large segment of the population foaming at the mouth for a move to EVs without the corresponding commitment to approving new mines. (E.g., Pebble mine in AK shut down). The myopic viewpoint is quite evident.
Some will look out the windshield 100 feet down the road and say "Everything looks good!" And others will use GPS and see that a bridge washed out 50 miles down the road and that they (we) need to take an alternate route now.
I don't really understand how anyone would be opposed to a Bancor type international settlements accounting unit (currency) that BRICS may adopt.
Unless they are just really into the neo-colonialism of the US empire.
In fact the argument can be made, that the current US petro dollar, world reserve currency, is actually not in the US's long term interest. This arrangement has resulted in a corruptive influence both domestically in the US and geo politically. Yes, it meant the US gets to party harder than others without the hangover, but it's also made the US act like a frat house spoiled brat that nobody likes.
I don't really understand how anyone would be opposed to a Bancor type international settlements accounting unit (currency) that BRICS may adopt.
Unless they are just really into the neo-colonialism of the US empire.
In fact the argument can be made, that the current US petro dollar, world reserve currency, is actually not in the US's long term interest. This arrangement has resulted in a corruptive influence both domestically in the US and geo politically. Yes, it meant the US gets to party harder than others without the hangover, but it's also made the US act like a frat house spoiled brat that nobody likes.
Exactly.
I made a simple calculation. Let's say all of the current US debt is in a single bond. What is the current yield for bond holders?
Current debt (today) is closing in on US$32.72 Trillion or $3.272 x 10^13.
The CBO states that this year the interest payment on the debt is US$663 Billion or US$0.0663 x 10^13.
That implies a yield of 2.02%.
But with inflation running in the 5-7% range, debtors could begin to expect and demand a higher coupon rate. What if that rate rose to 5%?
Now, our interest payments become US$1.636 Trillion each year for the current debt. It doesn't include new debt that certain segments will demand later this year, and early next year, and next summer, and on and on. Oooh, let's bail out student loan holders, and city union pensions, and pet projects in each congressional district and etc.
Well currently if you use the U.S. dollar in a manner we deem not to our liking we will steal your money. We just use the more polite term "freezing your assets." Good luck getting it back.
I take it that you have a lot of experience with that? The difference between the US and China/Russia is that you don't get thrown in jail/assets stolen/executed simply for criticizing the government. Moderator Cut Feel free to use the BRICS currency. I'm sure it will be great.
I take it that you have a lot of experience with that? The difference between the US and China/Russia is that you don't get thrown in jail/assets stolen/executed simply for criticizing the government. Moderator Cut Feel free to use the BRICS currency. I'm sure it will be great.
There isn't a BRICS currency. The group decided not to use any single currency for trade within the group, but rather use their own currencies and bypass the US$. They will likely use a clearing mechanism based upon current exchange rates.
Have you been keeping up with the news and discussion? Moderator Cut
Maybe this will help.
Although not formally on the agenda of the summit, “de-dollarization” is a priority issue for many BRICS countries and the dozens of other states in attendance. Some have suggested that BRICS establish its own currency to curb dependence on the U.S. dollar — but most observers see that as unviable. What is more likely is that BRICS countries and other partners will continue the trend of trading in their own local currencies instead of using the dollar. The BRICS bank already lends in Chinese yuan and announced yesterday that it would also do so in South African and Brazilian currencies.
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