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Hi all,
We're currently renting a house in Southside. After our lease expired last July, we went on a month to month lease (agreed as an extension of the prior lease via email because the landlord was out of the country). Under the new lease we would give each other 2 months notice to end the lease.
We're ready to move and our landlord wants to show the house via a realtor. We were happy to cooperate - got the house professionally cleaned, etc etc. Our lease states that except for emergencies we must have 24 hours notice before entry. We've been OK with that - letting realtors show the place as long as we're around - on far shorter notice than 24 hours.
He and the realtor want to put a lockbox on the front door to get as many people to see the place as possible. The lease agreement says nothing about a lockbox.
We're not OK with realtors showing up unannounced and don't expect they will. We've been assured they will call and get permission first and that they will take care not to let our cats out. But the realtor wants us to sign an document basically acknowledging that security is reduced due to the lockbox and waiving all rights to damages for any reason!
We're even willing to leave immediately if he pays us back the last month's rent and our deposit. But he says he has "cash-flow problems".
Hi all,
We're currently renting a house in Southside. After our lease expired last July, we went on a month to month lease (agreed as an extension of the prior lease via email because the landlord was out of the country). Under the new lease we would give each other 2 months notice to end the lease.
We're ready to move and our landlord wants to show the house via a realtor. We were happy to cooperate - got the house professionally cleaned, etc etc. Our lease states that except for emergencies we must have 24 hours notice before entry. We've been OK with that - letting realtors show the place as long as we're around - on far shorter notice than 24 hours.
He and the realtor want to put a lockbox on the front door to get as many people to see the place as possible. The lease agreement says nothing about a lockbox.
We're not OK with realtors showing up unannounced and don't expect they will. We've been assured they will call and get permission first and that they will take care not to let our cats out. But the realtor wants us to sign an document basically acknowledging that security is reduced due to the lockbox and waiving all rights to damages for any reason!
We're even willing to leave immediately if he pays us back the last month's rent and our deposit. But he says he has "cash-flow problems".
Is not agreeing to a lockbox without retaining the right to sue if they damage our property being unreasonable?
If anyone has dealt with similar issues could you please advise? OR if there's something else we could do/offer as a solution - I'm all ears.
Thanks!
The key word there is unreasonably, as renters it is not unreasonable to demand the 24 hour notice that the lease your currently in requires. I would just say flat no to the lockbox without some form of recompense.
Is it your fault he is having cash-flow problems? Probably not if your making the rent payments on time that he wanted. Under no condition should you agree to having a lock box put on the property. Acknowledging that security is reduced due to the lockbox and waiving all rights to damages for any reason, would be stupid!
If the property is being listed on MLS and a lockbox is used, the Realtor needs that disclosure signed. Otherwise, no lockbox. Your landlord was generous to give you 24 hours notice for showings. State law is a minimum of 12 hours, which still equates to overnight notice. I don't think you're being unreasonable to decline the lockbox, although, if they're using the blue Supra lockbox, only RE licensees who are MLS members will be able to access the key. My advice: do your landlord a favor and make the property easy to show. Lock up your valuables and you'll probably be OK. Another thing you could ask is that all potential renters be screened prior to showings, for safety and security purposes.
If the property is being listed on MLS and a lockbox is used, the Realtor needs that disclosure signed. Otherwise, no lockbox. Your landlord was generous to give you 24 hours notice for showings. State law is a minimum of 12 hours, which still equates to overnight notice. I don't think you're being unreasonable to decline the lockbox, although, if they're using the blue Supra lockbox, only RE licensees who are MLS members will be able to access the key. My advice: do your landlord a favor and make the property easy to show. Lock up your valuables and you'll probably be OK. Another thing you could ask is that all potential renters be screened prior to showings, for safety and security purposes.
Thanks madcapmagishion and EricBoyd. The law (my link in my first post is broken - so I've copied the language below) states that 12 hours notice is for the purpose of repair. No period is defined for the other purposes.
We really are trying to make things as easy as possible for the landlord, but I just can't see how a blanket lockbox waiver is OK for us to sign as renters. As you say above "you'll probably be OK" - but the reason they're asking for the waiver is to address the rare case when something goes wrong.
EricBoyd since you're in the business, could you help with the questions below:
1. They're showing the house to buyers, not renters. Is it feasible to screen home buyers? I have to think that would kill any buyer traffic.
2. Why are they insisting on a lockbox? We're happy to accommodate realtors even with short notice and when we are in the house (pretty often actually - we haven't had to say no to a realtor even once in the past two weeks). Or to give the landlord permission and have him accompany realtors into the house. I mean, the lockbox imposes so much liability/inconvenience in a renter-occupied house versus an empty place where there is no one to let in a realtor. Does it really make a difference to the sales effort?
I'm really annoyed that the realtor tries to brush away our concerns with "no realtor wants to get sued, they will lose their licenses etc. etc" while simultaneously trying to get us to sign a waiver that prevents precisely that scenario! Is it really that difficult to schedule times with buyers?
Appreciate the response and advice,
Thanks
JF
The law (Florida Statute 83.53):
(1) The tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord to enter the dwelling unit from time to time in order to inspect the premises; make necessary or agreed repairs, decorations, alterations, or improvements; supply agreed services; or exhibit the dwelling unit to prospective or actual purchasers, mortgagees, tenants, workers, or contractors.
(2) The landlord may enter the dwelling unit at any time for the protection or preservation of the premises. The landlord may enter the dwelling unit upon reasonable notice to the tenant and at a reasonable time for the purpose of repair of the premises. "Reasonable notice" for the purpose of repair is notice given at least 12 hours prior to the entry, and reasonable time for the purpose of repair shall be between the hours of 7:30 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. The landlord may enter the dwelling unit when necessary for the further purposes set forth in subsection (1) under any of the following circumstances:
(a) With the consent of the tenant;
(b) In case of emergency;
(c) When the tenant unreasonably withholds consent; or
(d) If the tenant is absent from the premises for a period of time equal to one-half the time for periodic rental payments. If the rent is current and the tenant notifies the landlord of an intended absence, then the landlord may enter only with the consent of the tenant or for the protection or preservation of the premises.
(3) The landlord shall not abuse the right of access nor use it to harass the tenant.
I extend the 12-hour reasonable notice to my showings and inspections. My tenants haven't complained.
In my opinion, it does make showing a property more difficult when there's no lockbox. If an agent is showing several properties to a buyer, it can be challenging to have to make special arrangements to meet a specific time frame to accommodate a tenant. Part of it is fueled by laziness, I'll admit. But it also could keep a property from even being shown if a buyer wants some privacy while they are viewing the house. Frankly, some tenants will not give a buyer or their agent any space to breathe during a showing. It's a buyer's market, so the ones that are easy to show are the ones that get shown.
This may not have helped you, but it's what I have experienced.
Having rented a home just a couple years ago, I would say a flat "I'm sorry, but no" to the lockbox. Not until I got most of my stuff moved into a new place. You've made yourself available to let people in on short notice. It might be a little inconvenient for the landlord but if he wants the place empty and ready for people to walk thru anytime, he should have ended the lease.
You're "probably" fine. But that "probably" is the key word. The law isn't hard and fast - all it says is "time to time" regarding showings to purchasers - and I would just be too uncomfortable.
But then, you might not have a room full of vintage action figures (not "dolls" despite what my wife says) that you're convinced everyone wants to grab and run off with.
I am a Property Manager and I agree with the Landlord (Yes, of course, I am biased). First he is probably using the Supra Lockbox, which requires a special code and tracks all users. If this was your house and wanted to rent it or sell it, I bet you would want that Lockbox on your door. When I show homes, if I can not easily get an appointment or access to the house, I consider it unavailable and move to the next house.
Once I had a Tenant who refused to allow me to show a home while she was living there and I told her if she was unreasonable witholding access and that I would hold her security deposit because she would directly cost me money. If she wanted to she could go to court and fight me over it.
After that instance, I clearly expanded my lease and stated that I, my representatives, and realestate agents could show the house and a lockbox would be installed. And I make them initial that paragraph and when I go over the lease with them I make it crystal clear.
In your case the Landlord is not showing the property, a Realestate Agent is. So why does it make a difference to you which Realestate Agent shows the property and if a lockbox is installed. They must be licensed and they have to use there key to access the lockbox.
As far as your comment about screening. This really depends on the agent. Many agents will not show a home to a buyer unless they have been pre approved. But my guess is most agents will screen better than the Landlord would have. And again the Lockbox issue you are concerned about has no influence on how much screening an agent or Landlord does.
Though small, there is always the risk someone could steal something. But that is true if the Landlord showed the property himeself.
So if he is giving you 24 hours notice and a licensed agent is showing the property, I am not sure what the issue with the Lockbox is. The lockbox just makes it more convient for the showing agent to show the property.
As both a LL and a tenant, oh hell to the no to the lockbox.
"He is probably using the supra" - who gives a flying leap - seriously. That means any realtor can just stop by any time without notice. That the might actually give notice is not as relevant as they might NOT.
As for releasing the realtor for ANY and ALL damages - oh hell to the no. If you are not willing to supervise your "lookees" to the extent that you can be sure there will be no damage to the tenant's property, then you don't get a prior release from responsibility.
Cats: promise to not let them out? Oh right. Someone comes in who is a dog owner and your cat freaks out because the realtor just forgot there are cats there. NOPE.
Sorry, but the LL can insist the realtor wait for permission and put the lockbox on AFTER the tenant has moved out.
Go buy rental property, manage it, and make an acceptable Return on Investment. And then come back and tell me how you feel.
If you where selling your house those are the same forms you have to fill out. But when its your money on the line it is O.K., but when it is the Landlord's money who cares. Have you ever sold a house via a Real Estate Broker? Did you refuse the Lockbox?
"That means any realtor can just stop by any time without notice" - No they cannot. You can put lockouts on the box. You also state the agent must contact the office. I have never had an agent show my occupied house in the manner you are stating. An agent must state the appointment time and window of showing and get approval before showing the property. If they did what you said I would be Yelling at their Broker!!!! I do not believe you have an factual evidence to back up that statement.
As far as waiting until the tenant moves to start showing the property, I go back to my first statement. Great plan if you want to lose your shirt on rental properties.
I have to add something of course Agents are Human and do make mistakes, but the original issue was over the Lockbox. And the with or without the Lockbox Agents can make mistakes, like let the cat out or worst forget to lock the doors back.
And BTW Agent's do keep an eye over the people seeing your property, because I guaranty you if anything is missing, there will be a lawsuit.
Last edited by rwbil; 05-19-2012 at 03:21 PM..
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