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Not miserable, just a means to an end. I have known a whole lot of people over my life, and almost ALL of them were out the door at 5 or as soon as possible, and wanted nothing to do with the job after then. They arent neccessarily miserable, but arent more then content either. Work is work, and that is all.
In every office there is some jack ass burning the midnight oil and obsessing in their sleep about the job. The description for them should not be "good work ethic".
Its a sad person who places temporary things like work, over permanent things like health and family.
This is not the option of most people, who are frequently under the belief that they are "lucky enough to have any job", and are commuting 4 hours each way to work it with a smile on their face. Many people will never find work that makes them happy, because they cannot make adequate money doing anything they are interested in. I have worked as an accountant for the majority of my career, I cant stand accounting. Why did I go in to the field? Because it was the best fit for my education and skills, crossreferenced with the available local job supply. Why did I get a degree in Finance? Because a degree in History likely would never pay my bills. Why did I even bother with college at all? Because clearly the professional baseball or football player dream wasnt going to work out.
Most people are like me, believe it or not. Few people are doing something professionally they actually would do if money was no concern.
Because clearly its impossible for an adult human being to alter their attitude, behavior and nuances based on surroundings and situational merits.
I am very glad that the greats of society who brought about real change for the world didn't have your attitude, or we would still be knocking rocks together to make fire in caves.
I don't know what circles you run in, but it seems like it is not with many ambitious people. I am done with this thread. Good luck doing something every day that you hate so much.
I am very glad that the greats of society who brought about real change for the world didn't have your attitude, or we would still be knocking rocks together to make fire in caves.
All of those greats were motivated by something further then the job they were doing. Normally it was money, sometimes fame or notoriety, rarely it was to actually help someone, but in very few cases it was because a person just enjoyed what they were doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
I don't know what circles you run in, but it seems like it is not with many ambitious people.
I run in circles with average everyday people who are stuck in places theyd rather not be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
I am done with this thread. Good luck doing something every day that you hate so much.
Means to an end my friend. One day, hopefully, Ill be retired.
I don't know why you feel you have to get so offensive. Let's be real here, though. It's people like you who do not understand business or the industry that will ruin everything. Outsourcing is effective, efficient, and beneficial for people in the IT industry. The fact that you fail to see that indicates a lot about your lack of understanding on this matter.
Frankly, outsourcing has proven it's value.
I agree about keeping jobs in the US.
I guess I should have clarified. I view "outsourcing" as shipping jobs Americans could do in America overseas, not as having a company contract out their IT support b/c they don't want to deal with it. Two very different things. I think having non in house IT is the wave of the future, but I think that tech jobs should be kept in the US and not outsourced to India or elsewhere.
I guess I should have clarified. I view "outsourcing" as shipping jobs Americans could do in America overseas, not as having a company contract out their IT support b/c they don't want to deal with it. Two very different things. I think having non in house IT is the wave of the future, but I think that tech jobs should be kept in the US and not outsourced to India or elsewhere.
I agree with both of your posts.
I've just posted my resumes on the two big job boards and have had nothing but off-shore "recruiters" pipe me for information. I won't post their identities but here's a sample of the grammar of the latest:
Below Details Needed for submission your Resume
Your Date of birth and month(No Need Years)
last 4 digit your driving license number Or your ssn last 4 digit only
updated resume good format And Your Visa Status
i will waiting for your valuable response
---end
Here's another similar one:
Client want to create ID Then only we can able to submitt your resume.if you are trust send me the details
---end
I sent them everything they asked for, but now, no response. They also don't answer their phones and have default greetings. The websites of these organizations look like cookie cutter templates.
I would like to ask them how they plan on getting people a job when they can't even form a proper sentence, then I remembered that most of the IT businesses are now run by people who speak the same.
I've just posted my resumes on the two big job boards and have had nothing but off-shore "recruiters" pipe me for information. I won't post their identities but here's a sample of the grammar of the latest:
Below Details Needed for submission your Resume
Your Date of birth and month(No Need Years)
last 4 digit your driving license number Or your ssn last 4 digit only
updated resume good format And Your Visa Status
i will waiting for your valuable response
---end
Here's another similar one:
Client want to create ID Then only we can able to submitt your resume.if you are trust send me the details
---end
I sent them everything they asked for, but now, no response. They also don't answer their phones and have default greetings. The websites of these organizations look like cookie cutter templates.
I would like to ask them how they plan on getting people a job when they can't even form a proper sentence, then I remembered that most of the IT businesses are now run by people who speak the same.
LOL I've seen e-mails like that before; it's so aggravating!
I receive at least a few a week on a regular basis. I've stopped responding.
Yesterday and the day before I received calls you could tell from the background chatter that it was a call center. From the sounds I imagined a room full of a hundred or more. Why would anyone deal with these people? Are they legit or are they just gathering information?
I've asked a couple of legitimate recruiters and they don't seem to know anything about this trend.
Would you trust and share your resume details with a recruitment phone bank group like this that barely speaks english? Would you feel this technique actually gets US folks jobs?
Indian Recruiters
I’ve worked along side plenty of Indians in my career. They’re as likeable and competent as anyone else. Indian recruiters on the other hand are the bane of my existence and the worst thing to happen to the I.T. industry since the black plague. Typically they’re rigged to autodialing terminal/headsets calling from some sweatshop in Mumbai or Bangalore using a U.S. V.O.I.P. number to look as though they’re calling from the U.S.
I unfortunately have had the displeasure of dealing with many of these Indian recruiters. Most of the recruiter calls I get are Indians. Normally the conversations don’t last long. A few times, when I’m bored or out of sheer morbid curiosity, I’ll drag out the discussion until it’s grisly demise. The following dialogue is a composite of conversations I’ve had with Indian recruiters the elements of which I’ve suffered many, many times. Imagine the recruiter speaking in a rapid fire almost unintelligibly thick Indian accent.
I.R.: Ello this is Ganesh Gupta calling you from A.I.T.R. (Annoying I.T. Recruiters). How are you doing today?
Me: I’m ok.
I.R.: Yes I have a position for you. Are you interested?
Me: It depends.
I.R.: Ello?
For some reason the say ‘hello’ when they mean any number of other things besides hello including: ‘what?’ or ‘would you please clarify?’ or ‘can you hear me?’ I like pretending they mean ‘hello’ as in the greeting.
Me: Hello
I return the ‘greeting’ and they think I can’t hear them or don’t understand what they’re saying.
This has actually gone on much longer than this. The passive aggression can be quite satisfying. Eventually I’ll give in and get the conversation back on track by letting them know I can hear them.
I.R.: Yes I have a position for you. Are you interested?
Me: It depends.
I.R.: Ello?
Me: Where is it located?
I.R.: You live in Washington, DC?
Me: Where…is…the…position…located?
I.R.: Yes the position is located in b..boom foc, Wyoming.
Me: I think it’s pronounced ‘Bum ****’.
I.R.: Oh sorry yes. Are you interested?
Me: How much does it pay?
I.R.: What is the lowest rate will you accept?
Me: What is the highest rate you are willing to pay?
I.R.: What is the lowest rate will you accept?
Me: What is the highest rate you are willing to pay?
I.R.: What is the lowest rate will you accept?
Me: One million dollars per hour.
I.R.: Ha, ha, oh no. I am sorry the most we can pay you is dollar forty per hour.
Me: One dollar and forty cents per hour?
I.R.: Yes.
Me: One dollar and forty cents per hour?
I.R.: Yes.
Me: I think you mean forty U.S. dollars per hour.
I.R.: Yes.
This is significantly less than I can make anywhere in the U.S. It’s not uncommon for them to say the word ‘dollar’ when they mean that the amount is in U.S. dollars…not rupees.
Me: Is this on a W-2, 1099 or corp-to-corp basis?
I.R.: Yes.
Me: I’m asking you a question. Is the rate on a W-2, 1099 or corp-to-corp basis?
I.R.: Yes.
Me: What is the duration of this project?
I.R.: Hello?
Me: What is the duration of this project?
I.R.: This position is two months.
Me: What is the job title?
I.R.: JAVA developer.
Me: I’m not interested.
I.R.: You are not interested?
Me: I’m not interested because I’m not a JAVA developer. I design and build database systems. I’m not interested in relocating to Bum ****, Wyoming. The rate is too low. The duration is too short.
I.R.: We can pay one dollar forty-two per hour.
Me: I’m still not interested.
I.R.: Is the location of Bum ****, Wyoming ok?
Me: No.
I.R.: It is not ok?
Me: That’s what I said.
I.R.: But the position is two months.
Me: Two months is too short.
I.R.: Two months is too short?
Me: That’s what I said. Also I’m not a JAVA developer.
I.R.: You are not a JAVA developer?
Me: That’s what I said.
I.R.: Oh I see. Ok thank you. (click)
They are usually legit jobs but you have to weed through them to see if any match your requirements. Many are travel jobs but often they pay for the travel so some folks might be interested. I got a great work-from-home gig from one of them.
I manage a few indian contractors, and they ARE willing to commute long distances for a job. One of my guys would drive four hours to be on site every sunday, stay there for the week, then drive home on friday for the weekend.
Unlike a lot of Americans, they actually have a decent work ethic.
I can't talk to the law side of things, but I used to work in IT (programming, then project management), got an MBA and now have a job in investment management.
Why does someone who says they are now in investment management manage itinerant Indian contractors?
Does anyone else in the job market get hammered by ridiculous e-mails/phone calls from outsourced Indian recruiters who are trying to fill 3 month contracts 1000 miles from your location for which you don't have the requisite skillset?
I am getting so SICK of these ridiculous phone calls from people with names like "Srinivasta" and "Krishna" who can't pronounce my name correctly and who think you can commute to Long Beach from Dallas.
Why are they calling Americans? This is their usual business model:
Sponsor H1B visas of "freshers" (means new college grads to Indians) with masters in computer science (a masters in computer science in India, if not from a top recognized school, is often from a 2-year trade school after high school which degree/schools sprang up due to demand for H1B labor).
Gather resumes of experienced programmers.
Instruct "freshers" to lift whole paragraphs of experience directly off the resumes above.
Drill "freshers" in how to answer questions at interviews and pretend they have experience.
Send "freshers" around the country to 3 month assignments, etc.; bill clients for an experienced programmer; pay "fresher" a pittance; require "fresher" to work as long as it takes and pay "fresher" no OT pay.
**********
Are they running out of H1B visa labor? Why would they call you?
PS: They don't care if you don't have the skillset; they expect you to edit your resume to say you do and learn how to fudge the questions to get in there like the "freshers" do.
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still getting the recruiters
