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You make a good point, but medical opinions shift, and I cannot prove it, but strongly belief that the American Medical Association is not free from outside influence and thus might classify this as a disease partially due to outside influence instead of it being a fully medical opinion.
I cannot prove it, but strongly believe that most everyone objecting to the AMA's determination have their own personal objectives and goals, that may have little to do with truth or justice.
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Originally Posted by HockeyAndRugby
Also, who says that they are right? Medical knowledge shifts over time. For example, homosexuality. Until 1973 the American Psychiatric Association considered it a disease.
What might have been interesting would have been if you had come up with an example where medical science believed something (analogous to not viewing obesity as a disease), then determined that the fact of the matter was the opposite (analogous to declaring that obesity is a disease), and then determined that that the opposite of that was true (analogous to what you claimed, declaring that obesity is not a disease). It isn't that such things have never happened, but rather (a) you didn't think of such a case, at the time when it would have perhaps supported your contention, a little; and (b) the fact that science generally doesn't make determinations until they're sure they're not completely wrong results in so few examples that would support your contention that the lack of examples itself would tend to discredit claims that this determination will eventually be reversed.
Because America seems obsessed with the "it's not my fault mentality". Because people seem obsessed with labeling everything as discrimination.
In Holland I see kids getting fatter and fatter. I see adults steadily gaining weight. In the US I see people morbidly obese and everytime I am there, it seems the number of people that are that way has grown. Compared to the past, especially the not so recent past, the numbers are staggering. It is very annoying, at least to me, to hear people blame everything and everyone but themselves. Quite frankly, I find it ridiculous. Seeing someone weigh 400 pounds and then claim it is not his fault.
I am sure that there are people that have medical conditions that make them more likely to become that fat, but how come our entire history is not full of mentioning of such people?
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Originally Posted by lkb0714
The black plague only become a problem at one point in time,
You want to compare AIDS (a virus) and the plague (most likely a bacteria) to obesity, people eating too much and not exercising enough, to each other? With the current medical knowledge the black plague would not have spread as much. But obesity cannot be attributed to another organism like a virus or a bacteria.
Because America seems obsessed with the "it's not my fault mentality".
It isn't even worth debating whether your assumption is true or false, because regardless it would not rationalize your assuming that everything that happens in the United States is related to that tendency.
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Originally Posted by HockeyAndRugby
Because people seem obsessed with labeling everything as discrimination.
Holland has its own problems with racial discrimination, which its residents are quick to deny despite increases in the number of complaints in recent years. How about this: Let's each restrict our comments about racial discrimination to that which takes place in our own country?
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Originally Posted by HockeyAndRugby
I am sure that there are people that have medical conditions that make them more likely to become that fat, but how come our entire history is not full of mentioning of such people?
For the same reason that you didn't hear about people living with previously-incurable, virulent diseases: They died.
If the obese can not do the job due to their weight, then it's not discrimination. Such as walk up four flights of stairs under 15 minutes without getting so winded, it took them another 15 minutes to recover. Yes, I worked with someone like this.
If I was deaf, and applied to a call center, it would not be discrimination either.
However, if all the obese person is doing is sitting in a chair all day, then yes.
One certainly doesn't have to be obese to get winded going up five flights of stairs.....some folks have asthma (which I have) and some folks are simply out of shape.
Because America seems obsessed with the "it's not my fault mentality". Because people seem obsessed with labeling everything as discrimination.
In Holland I see kids getting fatter and fatter. I see adults steadily gaining weight. In the US I see people morbidly obese and everytime I am there, it seems the number of people that are that way has grown. Compared to the past, especially the not so recent past, the numbers are staggering. It is very annoying, at least to me, to hear people blame everything and everyone but themselves. Quite frankly, I find it ridiculous. Seeing someone weigh 400 pounds and then claim it is not his fault.
I am sure that there are people that have medical conditions that make them more likely to become that fat, but how come our entire history is not full of mentioning of such people?
Because we have never has such ready access to food or the types of food which are now available. Seriously, maybe you should learn some of this basic human history and biology before you go judging people.
For the vast majority of human history food was not available readily. In fact humans are shaped by millions of years to crave fatty, nutrient dense foods because of the regular scarcity of food. It used to be a selective advantage to put on weight easily as it made someone more likely to survive during periods of low food availability and had almost no negatives because there was never enough food available to cause wide spread obesity. Only in the last 50 years have the types and amount of foods we have been selected to crave become available to everyone of all income levels.
Combine that with sedentary lifestyle almost everyone has (regardless of weight) and no one should be surprised by the obesity epidemic. We have not had time to adapt to our new food availability as a species. People with fast metabolism now have the selective advantage. Personally, I am too grateful that I won that particular role of the die to be blaming people who didnt.
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You want to compare AIDS (a virus) and the plague (most likely a bacteria) to obesity, people eating too much and not exercising enough, to each other? With the current medical knowledge the black plague would not have spread as much. But obesity cannot be attributed to another organism like a virus or a bacteria.
Again cherry picking.
What about heart disease? Is that not a disease? Who is to blame for that?
What about cancer?
Diabetes, who is to blame for type 1?
Blame does nothing except make YOU feel superior instead of being grateful. You aren't any better than the chubby girl with PCOS. You are just luckier. And because of that you think you have the right to discriminate in hiring? Ridiculous.
Your right, if you are eating 5,000 calories a day and not exercising, you should take some responsibility. But do NOT assume because I'm overweight that THAT IS THE CASE and THE REASON why.
If anything, ASSUME I have a genetic issue and then give me the time to show you whether or not that is the case. If you constantly see me scarfing down donuts and bagels and pizza, then you got me. But when you see I come in each day with a protein shake (that I made with no sugar protein powder, greek yogurt, lowfat milk, and a piece of fruit) for breakfast, a healthy salad full of colorful veggies, grilled chicken, and a SIDE of 1-2 tbsp of dressing that I DIP the tip of my fork into, and then see me dressed in my gym clothes after work headed to the gym, THEN maybe you'll realize (but I'm not holding my breath) that not all of us are overweight by choice.
You assume the doctor can just help you also... Yes, at some point a doctor SHOULD be able to help you, but that is not the case. If doctors could cure everything in a visit or two we'd have a lot less obese people! Doctors are still trying to understand all sorts of things, it's called a practice for a reason, if your patient doesn't die you win!
BTW I DID go to the doctor (and so do many others), and kept going, and kept gaining, and then they put me on birth control pills that made me gain even MORE weight and made me ill, then switched my pills, then gave me other pills that made me vomit because even though I had normal blood sugars, they thought it would help, then gave me pills that made me faint, and so on. I went through THREE doctors until one was really able to help me. After my diagnosis, through my own research, reading countless books, scientific journals, talking to people with my condition, did I truly figure out that even if I ate a "healthy" diet with 55-60% good carbs in the forms of whole grains and other good carbs, that I would still gain weight. Once I limited my carbs to 30-40% did I STOP gaining, and when I limited them to under 30% did I start losing. I met a nutritionist after who said I was doing everything right. My doctor now says I'm very healthy, but just overweight. DUH. Did they teach you that in med school or did you figure it all out by yourself?
Consider yourself lucky that ALL you have to say is "oh I guess TONIGHT I won't have a slice of pie" when I have to say "when was the last time I had a slice of pie? Oh yeah I think I had one bite of pumpkin pie last Thanksgiving..."
I mean tell me WHAT are you supposed to do when a side effect of your condition is "unexplained weight gain"!? Lose weight? Yeah....
I hate to be rude and angry, but I am sick to death of people acting like because I'm overweight, despite all my hard work, that it's OBVIOUSLY MY fault when my own doctor can't do more than say "yeah, it's your medical condition, good luck."
And what is your self diagnosed gentic disorder that makes you gain weight?
From my earlier post: After my diagnosis, through my own research, reading countless books, scientific journals, talking to people with my condition, did I truly figure out that even if I ate a "healthy" diet with 55-60% good carbs in the forms of whole grains and other good carbs, that I would still gain weight.
I did not diagnose myself. After my diagnos, by a doctor, I did my own research into how to best eat for my condition.
I was diagnosed by my current doctor and an endocrinologist as having PCOS (if you must know because apparently people think I'm making it up) after 3 doctors and tons of blood tests to check my thyroid, pituitary, possible auto-immune disorders, etc. That was around 2008/09? Many years later I have many symptoms under control except the weight and a few others, and even then I have managed to lose 30 lbs and keep it off. I can't take the medications to help such as metformin because it make me violently ill, although with careful diet and exercise I have good fasting blood sugars (79-82 everytime I am tested). I can't take spironolactone because it lowers my blood pressure to dangerous levels. I can't take Byetta to help me lose weight because I'm not diabetic. And so on. Having insulin resistance due to my PCOS is the worst thing ever when it comes to weight loss. Some days I seriously consider the Dukan diet (eat nothing but protein) but I know that's not healthy. So I have to work twice as hard as a "normal" person to keep my weight off, IMO that's not lazy. I check the scale on a daily basis and have to figure out trends when I see jumps in weight, but mostly it's random.
When you have a hormone disorder (which is what PCOS is) and introduce MORE hormones YES it's possible to gain weight, specially when you have PCOS.
I just know that it's wrong to assume someone is overweight because they are lazy. That's not the case all the time, but apparently nobody seems to get that. I work a lot harder than most people just to maintain my weight. Thank goodness despite it all I am healthy and have a good career.
Does it really matter if one person has to work harder than another to maintain a healthy weight?
Does it matter that some people can successfully quit smoking and others can't?
All of the reasons cited for not hiring smokers can also be applied to the overweight:
Cost.
Image.
Productivity.
If an overweight person can say: "I'm sorry.....I just can't lose weight....no matter how hard I try.....so you have to hire me anyway."
Why can't a smoker say: "I'm sorry.....I just can't quit smoking.....no matter how hard I try.....so you have to hire me anyway." ??????
I still don't see how a smoker is discriminated against when you cannot tell if someone is a smoker by looking at them. I've never walked up to someone I am interviewing and smelled their clothes lol. I had a coworker who was pretty, thin, smart, etc. One day we went out together and she was smoking, I was SHOCKED. She said she only smoked once a day, but I had no clue whatsoever because she never smelled like it at work.
Also, a smoker doesn't need to smoke to live, but an overweight person can't stop eating food for the rest of their life because eventually they will die. I'd rather be addicted to smoking or alcohol and have to get rid of that addiction than be someone who is addicted to food.
Of course smokers are discriminated against.....as in....WE DO NOT HIRE SMOKERS.....and we require you to take a test to prove it before we will hire you.
That pretty, thin, smart coworker of yours would not be hired by many companies just because of that one smoke she has a day.
Doesn't matter if she is the best person for the job in every other way.....she smokes.
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