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Our society appears to have exchanged the idea of a mutually beneficial agreement between employer and employee for a philosophy in which it is expected that every worker should be grateful simply for the opportunity to participate in the great capitalistic economic engine that drives wealth to the top of the column, and to pay heed to the question of whether or not the workers' own needs are in fact being met in return is regarded as an act of dire sacrilege.
Too true. But there ARE still things about running a business that the average employee does not see. We business owners are NOT all just Scrooges for the sake of being a Scrooge.
Employers can't survive without employees. At least not if they want to continue producing goods and services so they can stay in business. Have you ever tried to run an entire restaurant or factory singlehandedly?
And employers should never feel that they have the right to cross ethical and legal lines because of a disregard for their employees, either, but it happens all the time.
Furthermore, employers should never feel entitled to the labor of their employees to the extent that they they begrudge the employees their wages. But that's basically what's been happening in far too many companies lately. There seems to be this idea that work is somehow a virtue unto itself, and ought to be done for its own sake rather than for any real expectation of more than a purely symbolic remuneration, with payday persisting like some ritualistic charade still enacted for the sake of form long after it has become devoid of genuine function. Our society appears to have exchanged the idea of a mutually beneficial agreement between employer and employee for a philosophy in which it is expected that every worker should be grateful simply for the opportunity to participate in the great capitalistic economic engine that drives wealth to the top of the column, and to pay heed to the question of whether or not the workers' own needs are in fact being met in return is regarded as an act of dire sacrilege.
Yes, they can survive. They cannot become large or scale, but they can survive. Case in point are 'hobbiests' in every industry that are a one-man operation. They are a business.
Agreed that employers shouldn't cross the ethical line as well. And a good number don't and can't because a lot of the laws mirror the ethics.
I think you're right to a certain extent because of the supply boom in these troubled times. There are many industries with 100x the number of applicants that they used to have, so it's like shooting fish in a barrel. But those days will come to an end, and the consequences of these practices will eat those companies alive. The employer-employee (and vice versa) relationship can't be one-sided for it to be sustained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy
I don't know what your company is doing but it is wrong to make such blanket statements that employees fail that test regularly or that they won't do the right thing. Maybe such failures happen in your business but definitely not true for all companies. Common denominator for the successful businesses is that they go out of the way to help their best employees succeed - it is not a one-sided relationship.
Different industries and geographies have different labor pools to pull from. And while we do invest in our employees with training, there's the ROI that's important. Because if you're spending more money on building your workforce than you're making from that workforce, you're losing money. And businesses don't survive doing that. Sometimes people need more than we can give, and that's the heart of the matter for a lot of people in the entry-level workforce who have been in that workforce for decades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalisiin
Yeah, and many employers seem to fall down on the "...and we'll take care of you" part of that unwritten contract. and you know I'm right.
What needs to happen is to find a way to raise everyone's buying power.
There's only so much an employer can do as far as taking care of employees. We're not nannies, babysitters, or parents for our employees, and can't be. What do you do in these cases? You need a job done, not another job to do. Sure you can pay for everything, but if they're not producing, you don't have any money to pay for all that either.
It's interesting that you mention buying power. Lowering prices improves buying power. But to lower prices, you have to cut costs, like using off-shore manufacturing and labor. But then the jobs go. And here we are.
I think it's important to also clarify buying power for buying of what. Shoes can be found on sale for $20. No one 'needs' a tablet. If people managed their own desires and expectations, people could live within the means provided by even minimum wage jobs here in the us. Most of my family has done it. It's not easy, but it can be done. It's why immigrants (legal) thrive in the US. They don't have sense of entitlement that seems to affect all of us born in the US.
By the way, raising the minimum wage does not really do any good. What needs to happen is to find a way to raise everyone's buying power.
Are you better off making 10 bucks an hour...when a pair of shoes cost $50....
or are you better off making $20 an hour...and the same pair of shoes costs you $150?.
Ludicrous. On what basis do you assume a 100% increase in min wage equates to a 300% increase in consumer goods prices? This is a complete straw an argument because you are pulling numbers out of your a$$ with no justification.
In reality, wages are a small portion of consumer goods prices. Minimum wage increases won't effect the manufacturing cost at all, as most things are manufactured overseas. An increase in min wage of 100% (your number) would result in an increase in goods of les than 100%. So people do come out ahead.
If people managed their own desires and expectations, people could live within the means provided by even minimum wage jobs here in the us. Most of my family has done it. It's not easy, but it can be done. It's why immigrants (legal) thrive in the US. They don't have sense of entitlement that seems to affect all of us born in the US.
Yes, because most of us want to live in a neighborhood that isn't crime-ridden, run-down, with a crack dealer on every corner, and we don't want to live in a roach motel. Many of those legal immigrants you are talking about...are willing to live that way, because even THAT is better than where they came from.
MOST of us...came from better circumstances than we are now living in.
So you're comparing apples to oranges, but thanks for playing.
Yes, because most of us want to live in a neighborhood that isn't crime-ridden, run-down, with a crack dealer on every corner, and we don't want to live in a roach motel. Many of those legal immigrants you are talking about...are willing to live that way, because even THAT is better than where they came from.
MOST of us...came from better circumstances than we are now living in.
So you're comparing apples to oranges, but thanks for playing.
I hate to tell you, but none of us want to live that way. Many of us immigrants start out in those neighborhoods, save our money, and quickly move to safer places. We then move to nicer and nicer places until we like where we're at and can afford some of the nicer things. We trade in a 1998 Corolla with 300k on it and go out and buy a Mercedes with our hard earned cash. We trade in a flip phone for a new Galaxy s4. We buy our first new tablet after using computers that work was throwing away for a decade. We still haggle on prices and understand the value of a dollar because we earned the money, not took handouts or felt entitled to something because other people had it too.
You need to ask yourself why you came from better and are now living in worse. Because even though we have also had tough times, we took a few steps back, worked hard, and then were still able to move forward.
Managing your wants and understanding real needs is fundamental to not getting stuck in life.
Different industries and geographies have different labor pools to pull from. And while we do invest in our employees with training, there's the ROI that's important. Because if you're spending more money on building your workforce than you're making from that workforce, you're losing money. And businesses don't survive doing that. Sometimes people need more than we can give, and that's the heart of the matter for a lot of people in the entry-level workforce who have been in that workforce for decades.
Different industries must also compete with one another for good workers. My employer is not an investment bank but good people leave us to work for investment banks. What we can't compete for in cash, we compensate for in other ways like job rotations, overseas assignments, OJT value added training, etc. It lets us keep more workers than we otherwise would have lost. Of course, we go out of our way because there is no textbook that says we must to this, and it helps that we are a publicly listed company and have the resources. And yes, we do make something in return. I said both our employees and our company have won numerous awards which boosts our profile. We could never have done it had we paid $20/hr.
I can think of some companies across a broad range of industries that do this - GE (industrials), P&G (consumer), Citi (banking), IBM (IT), Starwood (hotels), Target (retail), Time Warner (media), J&J (pharma) and Verizon (telco). It is not industries that limit employee development. It is companies that limit. Some companies invest very little for whatever reason, and they attract mediocre workers. If your company is not trying to be in the same league as those who uphold employee development then indeed your company will not attract good workers.
Different industries must also compete with one another for good workers. My employer is not an investment bank but good people leave us to work for investment banks. What we can't compete for in cash, we compensate for in other ways like job rotations, overseas assignments, OJT value added training, etc. It lets us keep more workers than we otherwise would have lost. Of course, we go out of our way because there is no textbook that says we must to this, and it helps that we are a publicly listed company and have the resources. And yes, we do make something in return. I said both our employees and our company have won numerous awards which boosts our profile. We could never have done it had we paid $20/hr.
I can think of some companies across a broad range of industries that do this - GE (industrials), P&G (consumer), Citi (banking), IBM (IT), Starwood (hotels), Target (retail), Time Warner (media), J&J (pharma) and Verizon (telco). It is not industries that limit employee development. It is companies that limit. Some companies invest very little for whatever reason, and they attract mediocre workers. If your company is not trying to be in the same league as those who uphold employee development then indeed your company will not attract good workers.
While I agree with you in principle, all of those extra incentives do cost a business. And all the businesses you mentioned are large. For small businesses, this is very difficult to do and still have anything left for us owners at the end.
While I agree with you in principle, all of those extra incentives do cost a business. And all the businesses you mentioned are large. For small businesses, this is very difficult to do and still have anything left for us owners at the end.
Well then you will get the candidates you can afford ... the leftovers.
Not surprisingly the high performers want to work for large and/or established companies, or for themselves.
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