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I'm going to say this yet again, for the fifth or sixth time. The tests you folks are talking about ARE NOT "personality tests". Disabuse yourselves of that particular misconception immediately, and for all time.
In other words, get a danged grip on reality!
True personality tests, such as the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) can neither be purchased NOR used by anyone who does not have EXTENSIVE professional education & training in clinical psychology and/or psychometry, AND significant supervision in their application and interpretation. None of the HR Wienies that I know (and they number in the hundreds of thousands) have such credentials.
That's why they are 'HR Wienies', after all!
Can't y'all come up with a better and far more accurate term?
-- Nighteyes (the voice of truth and reason, crying out in the wilderness)
I'm going to say this yet again, for the fifth or sixth time. The tests you folks are talking about ARE NOT "personality tests". Disabuse yourselves of that particular misconception immediately, and for all time.
That is what they are marketed as though i agree they aren't valid. Their marketing claim these tests assess and measure personality traits and further predict whether they will be "good employees" if hired.
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girl
No, not from picking two words. Out of 100 words on each list, you pick as many as you want on both lists. And based on those selections, the software spits out the report.
My company has a multi-level process for interviewing.
1) Peer interview (a group of 3-4 people in a similar job to yours)
2) Supervisor interview (a group of 3-4 people who will be your first level boss) - the higher level the job, the more chance you will have TWO supervisor level interview groups to meet
3) Big boss interview (the main person you'll be reporting to)
4) The personality test
If it's an administrative support position you also take a computer skills test.
The Big Boss then gets feedback from the peer and supervisory group, and then also takes into consideration the personality test and his/her own experience with the candidate.
From there the Big Boss decides who to hire. My Big Boss takes very seriously the peer and supervisor feedback, and if there's any doubts after that she reads the report to see if things line up with what the peer/sprvr group says.
There have been a few times where my boss has NOT hired someone because the peer and supervisor group both said no - even if her own experience was positive. On the other hand, she has also hired people DESPITE what the peer/sprvr group says. But she definitely looks at everything before making the final decision.
Interviews here are no joke - there is a distinct desire to hire people who can be successful here and consider being here not just a job, but a place at which you genuine enjoy being every day.
3-4 immediate bosses? Plus another big boss! No way, this sounds like a dream job! Where do I sign up?
With all due respect, you drank a bit too much Kool-Aid.
3-4 immediate bosses? Plus another big boss! No way, this sounds like a dream job! Where do I sign up?
With all due respect, you drank a bit too much Kool-Aid.
Ya. Seems like a bit much. I've never heard of a peer interview. At most it would be a few rounds with different managers. And you only have one boss who you report to. Not "bosses".
Peter Gibbons: It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now. Bob Slydell: I beg your pardon? Peter Gibbons: Eight bosses. Bob Slydell: Eight? Peter Gibbons: Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.
3-4 immediate bosses? Plus another big boss! No way, this sounds like a dream job! Where do I sign up?
With all due respect, you drank a bit too much Kool-Aid.
Nope, no koolaid. *lol* Just a very, very large company and a job I happen to really enjoy.
When I started working here another admin and I both supported Big Boss and 6 of her direct reports, as well as basic admin assistance to the staff that reported to the six direct reports. Because it's such a large department (as I said, ~300 people), they have to have multiple layers of staff or else it would be chaos.
Surely other people have worked for companies where the admins support multiple levels of leadership? I worked for an investment bank and supported two Partners and two VPs who reported to one of the partners. I worked at a law firm where I supported three attorneys and the paralegal that reported to them. At the insurance company I reported to the President as well as two AVPs who reported to him. It's not unheard of and is pretty much the norm for larger companies.
I had never heard of peer interviewing until I got to this company. But sure enough, when I interviewed, my future co-admin was in the room along with the supervisors with whom I interviewed during my first round.
I'm going to say this yet again, for the fifth or sixth time. The tests you folks are talking about ARE NOT "personality tests". Disabuse yourselves of that particular misconception immediately, and for all time.
In other words, get a danged grip on reality!
True personality tests, such as the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) can neither be purchased NOR used by anyone who does not have EXTENSIVE professional education & training in clinical psychology and/or psychometry, AND significant supervision in their application and interpretation. None of the HR Wienies that I know (and they number in the hundreds of thousands) have such credentials.
That's why they are 'HR Wienies', after all!
Can't y'all come up with a better and far more accurate term?
-- Nighteyes (the voice of truth and reason, crying out in the wilderness)
Yes they are. I don't know how many times I have to say this, the MMPI is a test for psychopathology. It is a series of questions that have been validated for use in diagnosing psychopathology or abnormal personality in an individual. The MMPI is used in clinical settings.
There is also the Big 5 theory of personality. Big Five personality traits - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. This is the personality theory that most of the work based personality assessments are derived from. There are subfactors of the big 5 and most companies will use several sub components that best predict performance. Reliability is a subcomponent of conscientiousness and often does a great job of predicting performance in entry level retail positions. Imagine that, a person that shows up when they are scheduled is better at his/her job than someone that doesn't show up
I'm curious as to what your credentials are NightEyes other than making stuff up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
That is what they are marketed as though i agree they aren't valid. Their marketing claim these tests assess and measure personality traits and further predict whether they will be "good employees" if hired.
Again, validity is an outcome. A test can never be valid in and of itself. The MMPI is not valid when it comes to predicting who will succeed in medical school, so I could say it is not a valid test. All the tests I build for clients have personality as 1 component, I would never advise any client make selections based purely off personality. I build situational judgment, job-specific skills (math, chart interpretation,etc.) past experiences, and personality into my assessments. They are valid for selection into the positions I am using them for because we have evidence that they are related to success in the position (ie the top performers on the job perform better on the test (the way it is scored) than the worst performers on the job). This means it is "valid" because we are trying to predict performance and the test is doing it for the job it was designed for.
Blanket tests are not valid, because you typically have no evidence other than anecdotal that they do predict performance.
Here this is taken straight from CSUFresno's website
Quote:
Criterion Validity
Criterion validity is the extent to which people’s scores are correlated with other variables or criteria that reflect the same construct. For example, an IQ test should correlate positively with school performance. An occupational aptitude test should correlate positively with work performance. A new measure of self-esteem should correlate positively with an old established measure. When the criterion is something that will happen or be assessed in the future, this is called predictive validity, as when SAT scores are shown to be correlated with a students' eventual college grades. When the criterion is something that is happening or being assessed at the same time as the construct of interest, it is called concurrent validity, as when scores on a new self-esteem test are shown to be correlated with scores on an existing test taken at the same time.
It is also the case that a measurement method might be valid for one subject population or in one context, but not in another. For example, it would be fine to conclude that an English-language achievement test is valid for children who are native English speakers but not for children who are still in the process of learning English.
Speaking from my department's experience (we have ~300 people in my department): a good percentage of the folks that were hired BEFORE the personality test was used ended up leaving (or being let go) because they weren't a good fit. A good percentage of the folks that were hired AFTER the personality test was used have stayed and been quite successful. Those that left usually left the department due to promotion or transfer to another company location.
Sorry what's the problem with people leaving? And don't say they take skills with them they learnt on the job most people in most organisations are charged out from the moment they walk in the door and receive minimal training. So the point of all this really is to create organisational atrophy ...and decrease social mobility by attempting to select people with no ambition. If you've only ever done jobs you wholly enjoy you've probably never pushed yourself.
Deeper social questions like what happens to all the people regarded as a "bad fit" are skated over.
Leaving aside that the likes of Professor Cattell who dreamt this pigeonholing system up were deeply into eugenics is it really a good idea to have organisations with NO internal conflict stuffed with identikit people..?
The huge lie that any of this is needed should be debunked fast. A hire doesn't work? Sack them or take them on as a temp them let them go. No one has any employment rights for the first two years anyway so do we really need all these systems to dehumanise them before hiring them?
Any employer who thinks their employees relationship with them isn't primarily pecuniary is a fool.
That is what they are marketed as though i agree they aren't valid. Their marketing claim these tests assess and measure personality traits and further predict whether they will be "good employees" if hired.
And sometimes those tests are wrong - when I worked at Macy's, there was a short personality test as part of the application process, and my department still ended up hiring people who weren't good workers.
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