Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've been jumping through hoops for approximately two months now, applying for a job at a specific place... After a total of 5 Skype interviews and 1 in house interview, they finally offered me the job... But the salary offer is an insult.
Now, I understand that this is what companies do, so I'm trying to take it in stride, but why would a company offer me a lower salary than what I listed on the application for my expected range? I am fully qualified, my resume looks great, I have fantastic references, and the managers I met with all got along with me very well, and actually told me in their own words that I would be a great fit.
What gives? Are they doing that because they expect the applicant to counter with a higher offer, or is everyone just cheap? The strange thing is that they must have expected I would research salaries for this company, and it is extremely low what they offered me.
Not much you can do but walk away. I've had several insulting offers arround half of my current salary. When the offer is so bad that it is an insult negotiating a decent salary is a very low probability. You can sure try but you can bridge a gap not a huge gaping chasm.
"You offered X, but I would need a salary of Z to make a move."
They'll either say "Thanks for your time" or "We could go as high as Y."
Try that before walking away, given the amount of time you've invested. But make sure your counter-offer of Z has enough headroom that you could accept an offer of the lesser amount Y.
What was the % difference between what you were expecting and what they offered?
My personal level of indignation at the offer is inversely proportional to how long I've been unemployed.
It was 28% less than the ideal salary I expected, and about 20% less than an average amount I expected, based on the job description and all the market research I did. So yeah I'm miffed.
I'm not unemployed, and I actually like my job right now. But this would have been a lateral job move for me, just, to a different city. Almost the same job I do now. But factoring in the cost of living difference, and the severely higher-priced health insurance costs, the salary they offered me would put me in a project development.
I've never been good at negotiating, not for a car, and not for a salary. That's probably why I'm not in sales for a living. So I'm upset that they are haggling with me. I already countered, and I was straight up with the HR guy... I told him what the lowest I can go is, and made it clear that's as low as I'll go. I might have shot myself in the foot by doing that but I suck at negotiating, and that's why I chose a career where it should never have come into play in the first place. Sigh.
I'm not even being greedy. My counter offer is sincerely the lowest I can go and not take a pay cut. It's also on the lower end of the scale when doing all the market research for this industry and this position. I don't understand why they would have wasted all that time with me, and the money they spent on flying me up there and stuff, to offer me what they offered. Like as if this was an entry level job or something.
Siiiiiiiiiigh!!!
Anyway, I'm glad that at least I already have a job that I like, even if it's in a city I would rather move out of. I guess, count my blessings and all that...
It was 28% less than the ideal salary I expected, and about 20% less than an average amount I expected, based on the job description and all the market research I did. So yeah I'm miffed.
I'm not unemployed, and I actually like my job right now. But this would have been a lateral job move for me, just, to a different city. Almost the same job I do now. But factoring in the cost of living difference, and the severely higher-priced health insurance costs, the salary they offered me would put me in a project development.
I've never been good at negotiating, not for a car, and not for a salary. That's probably why I'm not in sales for a living. So I'm upset that they are haggling with me. I already countered, and I was straight up with the HR guy... I told him what the lowest I can go is, and made it clear that's as low as I'll go. I might have shot myself in the foot by doing that but I suck at negotiating, and that's why I chose a career where it should never have come into play in the first place. Sigh.
I'm not even being greedy. My counter offer is sincerely the lowest I can go and not take a pay cut. It's also on the lower end of the scale when doing all the market research for this industry and this position. I don't understand why they would have wasted all that time with me, and the money they spent on flying me up there and stuff, to offer me what they offered. Like as if this was an entry level job or something.
Siiiiiiiiiigh!!!
Anyway, I'm glad that at least I already have a job that I like, even if it's in a city I would rather move out of. I guess, count my blessings and all that...
The money subject should have been breached by the 3rd Skype interview. Sounds like both parties were wasting each other's time.
I've been jumping through hoops for approximately two months now, applying for a job at a specific place... After a total of 5 Skype interviews and 1 in house interview, they finally offered me the job... But the salary offer is an insult.
Now, I understand that this is what companies do, so I'm trying to take it in stride, but why would a company offer me a lower salary than what I listed on the application for my expected range? I am fully qualified, my resume looks great, I have fantastic references, and the managers I met with all got along with me very well, and actually told me in their own words that I would be a great fit.
What gives? Are they doing that because they expect the applicant to counter with a higher offer, or is everyone just cheap? The strange thing is that they must have expected I would research salaries for this company, and it is extremely low what they offered me.
Can't you just tell how how much they offered you? And how much you wanted ? What's the big deal ? None of us know you in real life .
It was 28% less than the ideal salary I expected, and about 20% less than an average amount I expected, based on the job description and all the market research I did. So yeah I'm miffed.
I'm not unemployed, and I actually like my job right now. But this would have been a lateral job move for me, just, to a different city. Almost the same job I do now. But factoring in the cost of living difference, and the severely higher-priced health insurance costs, the salary they offered me would put me in a project development.
I've never been good at negotiating, not for a car, and not for a salary. That's probably why I'm not in sales for a living. So I'm upset that they are haggling with me. I already countered, and I was straight up with the HR guy... I told him what the lowest I can go is, and made it clear that's as low as I'll go. I might have shot myself in the foot by doing that but I suck at negotiating, and that's why I chose a career where it should never have come into play in the first place. Sigh.
I'm not even being greedy. My counter offer is sincerely the lowest I can go and not take a pay cut. It's also on the lower end of the scale when doing all the market research for this industry and this position. I don't understand why they would have wasted all that time with me, and the money they spent on flying me up there and stuff, to offer me what they offered. Like as if this was an entry level job or something.
Siiiiiiiiiigh!!!
Anyway, I'm glad that at least I already have a job that I like, even if it's in a city I would rather move out of. I guess, count my blessings and all that...
A few points:
1. Don't worry, many of us (including me!) are terrible at negotiating. I did read a great book I picked up at the library on the job search/interview/salary negotiating experience. I suggest you pick up a few to do the same. It can pay off in HUGE dividends (literally, over a hundred thousand dollars over the course of your lifetime) for just a few hours spent reading them. And practice with a friend or a family member, even if it's over the phone! But it sounds like you already did a great job at negotiating already, by telling them what your final, lowest salary would be.
Just out of curiosity, did they come up at all, or did they simply say "$X per year", and you've had to come down to your lowest number, and they're not budging? Also, don't forget the other aspects of a compensation package - some companies pay overtime, some flex-time, some have good retirement plans/packages, some have different health insurance contributions, some offer reduced/free other benefits (gym, food, etc.)
2. Average salary - remember that the average for the market is the average. Some companies will pay more, some less. When I looked around in 2007, I had one consulting firm say they pay an engineer of my position in the mid $50k. The job I ended up taking with another employer was at $73k (and I could have bumped it up higher if I had negotiated better). Some companies simply pay what they do, and hope their work environment/culture/etc. make people happy and think that they are fine with earning less. Other people aren't willing to accept that low of a salary. So don't take it personal, although I am surprised that you had mentioned a salary range previously that apparently is about 25%-30% higher! Another employer I interviewed with in 2007 had an office in New York City (was interviewing with their DC office). The HR guy told me that their NY City office actually paid the lowest salaries in their company (despite the high cost of living!) because "many young people want to work in NY City". Therefore, due to the simple law of supply-and-demand, they can get away with offering lower salaries.
3. Negotiating - companies will never give you their 'final' offer as a first offer. They are trying to reduce their expenses. They aren't going to shower you with more than they need to with salary.
I did interview at another firm a few years ago, and they offered me about $12k less than I was making at the time. They did their song and dance of "we're a great company, yada yada yada", but just ask yourself what your goals are in life - is salary 95% of the equation? Are you ok with making less in a different city/work environment (which will have its own challenges compared to your current work environment). Once you step down in salary, you have to try even harder to step back up and make up lost ground.
Also, don't forget that you said that you do like your job now - close your eyes and think about "what would make my current job better than it is now? Higher salary? Better boss? Better city to live and work in? Shorter commute?" If you have a job you're happy with now, you should have a very valid reason for changing, and taking a lower salary is already a negative you have to offset with another positive.
The money subject should have been breached by the 3rd Skype interview. Sounds like both parties were wasting each other's time.
Everything I read about salary negotiation online, prior to the interviews, said to not be the first one to mention salary. I kept reading that over and over, so I assumed that was the correct way to go about it. Also, my "desired salary range" was filled in on the job application. I thought that meant they wouldn't even bother contacting me if I was not in their ball park.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 191185
Can't you just tell how how much they offered you? And how much you wanted ? What's the big deal ? None of us know you in real life .
True, but I am in a limited industry where there's a lot of networking, and in full honesty here, someone could connect the dots and probably figure out who I am. My primary concern is burning my bridges. If someone at this company happens to be reading this thread they could possibly figure out that I am "that guy" and maybe preclude me from any further future possibilities. I'm just playing it safe. I'm not sure how it would help this thread in any way if I listed the exact numbers, frankly. The percentages tell the same story, and I even busted out a calculator before providing those percentages here, so I'm not even estimating here. I'm in broadcasting, and figures are based on market size. I am currently in a "top 20" market and I was interviewing for the same job I have now but in a "top 10" market. Furthermore, the actual market population is just less than double the size of my current market's population. Also, I had the ability to look up tax returns for this company and I know for a fact what they earned last year, and also how much their board members are paid. I'm not underestimating their numbers at all, based on all of this information.
I still haven't heard back from them after my last telephone conversation, where I told them I really want to work there, but simply cannot afford less than my bottom dollar price of X. I was told they didn't think they could make that happen, but that they would bring the number to the CFO and see what they could do. I'm hoping that the delayed response means they might be trying to accommodate this, rather than just delaying the phone call that says "sorry we can't do that." Right? Lack of a response right away seems like there might be a shred of hope there instead of a NOPE! I hope, anyway.
1. Don't worry, many of us (including me!) are terrible at negotiating. I did read a great book I picked up at the library on the job search/interview/salary negotiating experience. I suggest you pick up a few to do the same. It can pay off in HUGE dividends (literally, over a hundred thousand dollars over the course of your lifetime) for just a few hours spent reading them. And practice with a friend or a family member, even if it's over the phone! But it sounds like you already did a great job at negotiating already, by telling them what your final, lowest salary would be.
Just out of curiosity, did they come up at all, or did they simply say "$X per year", and you've had to come down to your lowest number, and they're not budging? Also, don't forget the other aspects of a compensation package - some companies pay overtime, some flex-time, some have good retirement plans/packages, some have different health insurance contributions, some offer reduced/free other benefits (gym, food, etc.)
2. Average salary - remember that the average for the market is the average. Some companies will pay more, some less. When I looked around in 2007, I had one consulting firm say they pay an engineer of my position in the mid $50k. The job I ended up taking with another employer was at $73k (and I could have bumped it up higher if I had negotiated better). Some companies simply pay what they do, and hope their work environment/culture/etc. make people happy and think that they are fine with earning less. Other people aren't willing to accept that low of a salary. So don't take it personal, although I am surprised that you had mentioned a salary range previously that apparently is about 25%-30% higher! Another employer I interviewed with in 2007 had an office in New York City (was interviewing with their DC office). The HR guy told me that their NY City office actually paid the lowest salaries in their company (despite the high cost of living!) because "many young people want to work in NY City". Therefore, due to the simple law of supply-and-demand, they can get away with offering lower salaries.
3. Negotiating - companies will never give you their 'final' offer as a first offer. They are trying to reduce their expenses. They aren't going to shower you with more than they need to with salary.
I did interview at another firm a few years ago, and they offered me about $12k less than I was making at the time. They did their song and dance of "we're a great company, yada yada yada", but just ask yourself what your goals are in life - is salary 95% of the equation? Are you ok with making less in a different city/work environment (which will have its own challenges compared to your current work environment). Once you step down in salary, you have to try even harder to step back up and make up lost ground.
Also, don't forget that you said that you do like your job now - close your eyes and think about "what would make my current job better than it is now? Higher salary? Better boss? Better city to live and work in? Shorter commute?" If you have a job you're happy with now, you should have a very valid reason for changing, and taking a lower salary is already a negative you have to offset with another positive.
Thank you for this lengthy response! I felt it deserved a reply if its own.
1. Thank you for that advice, and I do plan on learning as much as I can now about negotiating, since I just learned the hard way that I can't escape it, much to my dismay. I haven't heard back from them yet, so I don't know if they are going to try meeting me halfway or not. But that will still be less than my minimum, if they do. As far as perks, the health insurance is about 7 times more expensive than what I pay through my current job, and for not even as good of a deductible. Their pension plan *is* slightly better than my current one though, but only just slightly. Vacation time is the same. And there are no material benefits like gym memberships or anything like that. At least, not that were mentioned to me.
2. I know what you're saying there, and that's why I've decided that if they can't (or won't) budge, that it just wasn't meant to be. In other words, if that is the case, then they must not value the specific position I am in the way that my current job does. My primary motive for wanting to move is to be in a different geographic location, and that is it. I'm tired of living in a hot, humid swamp. This is my home, and I do in fact love it here, but I'm ready for a change of climate, geography, and scenery. But not at that much of a salary loss. I might consider a few thousand dollar cut, but not to the degree their current offer would force upon me and my wife. With the cost of living up there being consistently 18-20% higher than comparable apartments in comparable neighborhoods here, that would mean living in a section 8 kind of place. I'm sorry if that makes me look like a bad person, but I just can't bring myself to do that.
3. So yeah, negotiating is a weak skill for me, and I'm now aware of this weakness, and how serious it can be. If I must find a silver lining here, it's that I now know I have to learn this skill. So I am always thankful when things like this are brought to my attention, so that I can better myself for the future. The bottom line is, the thing that would make my current job situation better is if I were in a better city... One where there was a better climate, a change of seasons, varying topography, a new set of outdoor activities I could engage in, those kinds of things. Yes, a higher salary would make it easier to continue putting up with the things about Florida I'm learning to dislike more and more as I age, but truly, I am not a greedy man, and I also know how to be thrifty. So I'm okay with the salary I currently have, in relation to the expenses that go along with life here. But I can't afford to take such a severe pay cut.
I'll update this thread after HR gets back to me with an answer. Thank you, all of you, for responding. I greatly appreciate it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
