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And the best part of that is a population that, thus far, has had the good sense to keep it that way. KC's people make for far superior co-workers and friends than found in more "progressive" metros.
This is absolute B.S. I have lived in Boston and Austin...both decidedly "progressive" metros and I had a lot friends in both cities...and yes (gasp!) we used to go out late and hang with the "3AM Crowd". The people were great in both cities...not that KC doesn't have great people too...but there are good people that enjoy going out to nightclubs, late night concerts, and other activities...
How would KC's co-workers and friends be superior than any other city? That's an absolutely non-quantifiable and unprovable statement.
My brother lives in suburban Denver! How does having children affect your thoughts living in an urban versus suburban area? If you moved back to LA, where would you live?
I just think it depends on what the market demands. If there were tons more people wanting to live downtown - which may happen - then I think there'd be more focus there. Right now, you are right. There are so many people content to live in the suburbs of Kansas City rather than in the urban core. But there is a huge difference between now and the 80s. Downtown in the 80s was dead after dark. There was no reason to be down there.
Very true. Prices reflect demand! On the bright side, if you want an urban lifestyle in KC, you can probably find something nice for a very reasonable price. In Denver, living downtown is getting to the point where it's only for well-off people. And the reason they keep building apartments and condos in and around downtown is because they know they'll sell.
We live within the city limits of Denver, but not in an extremley urban neighborhood. We're in the Stapleton "new urbanist" redevelopment of the old airport. For single family houses, it's quite dense and we barely have a yard. But we're within 10 min. of downtown and everything urban Denver has to offer. Our kids go to public school, but DPS is nothing like the KSMOSD, and as long as you live in a nice neighborhood, you have good schools.
As far as moving back to L.A., I don't know where we'd live. That obviously would depend a lot on what we could afford. Having kids, we'd still opt for single family home living. If we didn't have kids, we'd probably look for a condo/townhouse/highrise condo situation. We lived in a condo before.
I am talking after-bar food...or 24 hour restaurants (which are few except for some chains - IHOP, maybe?). There's Chubby's, I know. Part of it is where I grew up (New York State), bars are open until 4AM and many restaurants stay open to catch those after-bar customers for grub.
Essentially, I don't need to order Chinese food at 4:00 AM but it's nice to know I have the option. Unfortunately, not here in KC.
Nashville is not 24 hours either, but stuff stays open until 3:00 AM.
We used to go to Chubby's after the bars closed.. 20 years ago
I know about the latest plan for the P&L tower. I actually emailed the guy doing the P&L Tower, I know him personally. KC desperately needs a local developer like that to step up because there are so few there now that will do anything but developed subsidized suburban developments.
Sounds like its a developer problem, not a "suburban mentality" problem. I'm not sure what exactly you're complaining about. What is KC supposed to do? They already give incentives out the wazoo. They build the P&L District. The are building a streetcar which has already had a major effect on spurring development. They lured UMKC to build a campus downtown. We did the PAC. The Crossroads Academy seems quite popular. What is it that you think KC needs to do to get to the next level? Cause all I'm hearing is bitching about what KC isn't instead of focusing on what KC is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo
I don't get KC and never will, but the more I travel, the more I see that despite all of what KC has accomplished, the city is still way behind when it comes to urban revitalization and the gap may even be still widening. If that metro EVER gets on the same page, it would be one of the most amazing mid sized big cities in the country rather than just getting by with bare minimum regional efforts and being so afraid of change or investing in infrastructure, especially anything "urban". I guess it will happen eventually, everything in KC takes a VERY long time.
Just curious, but why on earth do you think that? Why do you think KC could be great when you spend so much time ripping KC on what it is not?
I mean, I like that you on some level seem to like KC, but its pretty frustrating to those of us working on the ground, here in KC, trying every day to make this a better city, knowing full well it will take decades and generations to improve things, yet seeing incremental movement, only to have spitballs thrown at us from afar that not enough skyscrapers are being built.
Be thankful for what ya'll got. Coming from Dayton, KCMO has a "ton" of urban activities, but without the crushing costs of DC. People can live comfortably in both the urban core and suburbs without seeing near 4000/month rent for a 2-3 bedroom apartment, not even in the city.
Out here in Dayton, we have pretty much nothing. If we go anywhere urban, it basically merits a trip to Cincinnati (very much like the KC area, multiple states, mid-sized Midwest, can feel a little slow on the trend uptake) or Columbus. But I guess that is one feature Dayton has that KCMO doesn't. We can reach three other major metros within an 1-2 hour drive.
I'm happy to see people are at least willing to discuss the issues, although I learned a long time ago that the Kansas City forum doesn't care for anything too progressive or radical, but there's enough debate that it won't end up like the Wichita forum at least. As far as Kansas City goes, I came and went. So did several others that I knew. I gave it almost two years, most gave less. Something was "off". I liked the place enough for sure, but I felt a lot of what KCMO has pointed out, particularly downtown. The plaza, union station, Kauffman center and the nelson redeem it in some ways, but I don't know if it's enough.
A few things about downtown:
-The 10th and Main bus transfer zone, right in the heart of the city with loitering and open drug dealing. I know because I have seen it plenty of times when I transferred buses there. This bus zone should be moved to the east side of downtown.
-The fact that the stadiums: baseball/football, were never put downtown was a huge costly mistake.
-There should be at least one new skyscraper, even OKC did it, yes it sort of looks out of place, but so did Columbia Center in Seattle when it was first built, it took awhile, but eventually other neighboring high-rises went up.
-I tried to rent downtown, but I was priced out of all of the trendy lofts because I either made too much money or not enough. The former rather than the latter was more of an issue. I think it's great that the city was able to keep affordable housing downtown, which I can't say even for Seattle; but in my opinion the pendulum has swung too far in one direction, when upper income housing moves in, so will the trendy bars, restaurants, stores, and other business establishments that cater to them, but it doesn't seem like the city is doing anything to encourage growth of this nature. I had to laugh at the post that mentions the desire for an Applebee's, I agree that whoever made that statement originally is soooooo Kansas City!
-The constant security patrolling the hotel/convention district is nice, but to the point of where people can't even sit on a bench and enjoy a sunny day without being scrutinized by these people was going way overboard and under whose authority I don't know. They weren't city officers.
-Everybody I worked with lived either in Northland or JoCo/WyCo. And nobody it seemed ever had the desire to go downtown. EVER! Only one time did a coworker mention it, and only to attend an event. But it was all talk, I knew he wouldn't follow through. His reason: parking concerns and safety.
-Speaking of safety, I never felt unsafe during the day and was only in P/L at night, plenty of people around, safety in numbers. I would not have gone to the deserted parts after business hours, but I had no reason to.
The only similar tiered city I have experience with is Salt Lake and I believe it might even be a tier less than KC, KCMO can you confirm that? SLC has a thriving downtown in a relative sense: light rail, temple square, salt palace, and a couple of malls: indoor and outdoor. They haven't always had success either. Some of their downtown projects were fiascos, but they keep plugging away at it, mainly because they have little choice as there is no alternate neighborhood to draw people away like the plaza or crown center. But I digress.
I will make more points as I think of them. This thread caught my eye just as I was heading to bed, so I haven't had time to mull it over.
I'm happy to see people are at least willing to discuss the issues, although I learned a long time ago that the Kansas City forum doesn't care for anything too progressive or radical, but there's enough debate that it won't end up like the Wichita forum at least. As far as Kansas City goes, I came and went. So did several others that I knew. I gave it almost two years, most gave less. Something was "off". I liked the place enough for sure, but I felt a lot of what KCMO has pointed out, particularly downtown. The plaza, union station, Kauffman center and the nelson redeem it in some ways, but I don't know if it's enough.
I'm intrigued. I wish you could better explain what you mean by "off".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garethe
A few things about downtown:
-The 10th and Main bus transfer zone, right in the heart of the city with loitering and open drug dealing. I know because I have seen it plenty of times when I transferred buses there. This bus zone should be moved to the east side of downtown.
Do you think classism is progressive? I think the main bus transit center should be smack in the middle of downtown. That only makes sense. I know about the problems you've witnessed, but that's very much true of the urban environment in general. 11th and Grand is another hot spot. While there are a few problems, some of which come from people from the nearby halfway house in the west bottoms, most people who use the 10th and Main transit plaza are legit citizens going to and from work and everywhere else they need to go in their daily lives. Why is the solution to push them out of the way and out of sight, rather than tackling the actual problem causers? To be honest, even with the drugs and drinking, it doesn't really strike me as much of a problem, but it could certainly be better cleaned up than it already has been (efforts have been made and have been successful in recent years). Anyway, there are plans to move the transit center in the near future, but I don't think it'll be on the east side of downtown because I believe it's going to be, logically, on the streetcar line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garethe
-The fact that the stadiums: baseball/football, were never put downtown was a huge costly mistake.
This would be nice, but it's just not reality or going to be anytime soon. I'd love to see the Royals right downtown and maybe the Chiefs on the site of Kemper Arena with tailgating on the Kansas River.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garethe
-There should be at least one new skyscraper, even OKC did it, yes it sort of looks out of place, but so did Columbia Center in Seattle when it was first built, it took awhile, but eventually other neighboring high-rises went up.
It would be nice, but skyscrapers are overrated. More jobs would be great though. A refreshed skyline would be nice too. I've always thought 11th or 12th and Grand would be a great place for a new, huge skyscraper, maybe with a retail center in the bottom and Grand as new downtown retail corridor (retail is something downtown needs more of, I think), but now the YMCA is taking that spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garethe
I tried to rent downtown, but I was priced out of all of the trendy lofts because I either made too much money or not enough. The former rather than the latter was more of an issue. I think it's great that the city was able to keep affordable housing downtown, which I can't say even for Seattle; but in my opinion the pendulum has swung too far in one direction, when upper income housing moves in, so will the trendy bars, restaurants, stores, and other business establishments that cater to them, but it doesn't seem like the city is doing anything to encourage growth of this nature. I had to laugh at the post that mentions the desire for an Applebee's, I agree that whoever made that statement originally is soooooo Kansas City!
The rent issue for folks in that middle range is a legit issue that a lot of people complain about and I'm not sure all of the newly announced construction is going to help, because all of the new expected rents are expensive. While I don't know how more rentals can be provided for the gap, I disagree with you that KC isn't encouraging and actually seeing high-rent apartment developments. There have been a whole slew announced just recently. And I think the accessible/working-class housing is very important and a good thing. Saving historic buildings and allowing working-class to be part of the new downtown - that is the kind of "progressive" I like, personally, and according to what you say KC may be more progressive than Seattle in that regard. Kansas City is not New York and I think there's plenty of room for all types. I like diversity. You seem to be skewed toward wanting everything oriented toward the wealthy. How is that progressive? I'm not sure if it was me you were talking about when you mentioned Applebee's, but I said Outback. At any rate, I do think Applebee's, Outback, Hardee's, Target, Macy's, and some other small chain retail stores like Gap, etc. would be great for downtown. There's room for the upscale and trendy stuff you desire and the average stuff both. You may think that's "so Kansas City" in some negative way, but quite frankly I think this is a basic feature of much larger, much more urban cities than KC, that KC lacks. Not everybody is an elitist and downtown might be more popular all around if it had the things I mentioned - to prospective and current residents, visitors, tourists, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garethe
-The constant security patrolling the hotel/convention district is nice, but to the point of where people can't even sit on a bench and enjoy a sunny day without being scrutinized by these people was going way overboard and under whose authority I don't know. They weren't city officers.
You bet it's nice. That's what I was talking about when I said an effort has been made and successful in recent years curbing the drug and drinking problems downtown. I haven't had a problem being harassed personally by them personally in my many years spending time downtown. Are you willing to share any more details about whatever incident occurred with you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garethe
-Everybody I worked with lived either in Northland or JoCo/WyCo. And nobody it seemed ever had the desire to go downtown. EVER! Only one time did a coworker mention it, and only to attend an event. But it was all talk, I knew he wouldn't follow through. His reason: parking concerns and safety.
Yes, there's a sort of urban/suburban divide in KC where there are some like you describe, but obviously everybody isn't like that. Do you think KC is worse than similar cities in that regard? I don't recall all of the original post, but I suspect what you've described is part of what inspired this thread. However, it's interesting you seem to think downtown should be restricted to trendy and upscale, yet at the same time think more people should be interested in downtown. Honestly, I think familiar/mainstream stuff could help put downtown on the radar of the masses and help them become acquainted with downtown. Maybe most people need to take baby steps, before graduating.
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