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There is a HUGE difference between JoCo and NOVA. You may be thinking of the far flung parts of the area such as Loundon County which is more like JoCo both in built environment and culture, although still different. Even those areas are faster paced, and have much more dense development than JoCo does, especially areas along the Silver Metro line. Also the 95 corridor from Springfield on south is probably at least somewhat like JoCo, but still just much busier and more built up.
As you get closer to the beltway, Tyson's Corner, Alexandria all the way to the DC line including areas like Pentagon City and Rosslyn, there is absolutely no comparison between NOVA and JoCo. Even outer areas like Tyons. Just walk through Tysons Mall and then walk through Oak Park Mall. It's a completely different demographic. Much much more diverse (literally every person you look at will likely be from a different part of the world) and more affluent and yes, more sophisticated.
I'm not saying it's better. I'm saying it's different. Other than some of the office parks looking the same, they are very different and nothing in Kansas is or will ever even remotely resemble NOVO inside the beltway.
Having said that, the further out sprawly parts of NoVa are hell. I agree with that. Even Tysons is pretty much hell on earth because it's so freaking congested all the time. Traffic is horrendous there and commute times into DC are just nuts. As far as built environment that area is more like suburban Atlanta or Houston with 12 lane freeways and skyscrapers (with a more international vibe/culture). It's one reason I chose the Maryland suburbs. It's more "east coast" than the newer parts of NoVa.
Northern Virginia outside the beltway is hell on earth.
Traffic is awful and many of the roads there are 2 lane roads that were built before development sprouted up.
I lived in Oakton 17 years ago (way before all of the massive new development) and it was a chore to get anywhere. I went back to the area for a business trip back in 2009 and the drive from Tysons Corner to Vienna took absolutely forever.
At least it seemed that in the Maryland suburbs of DC the basic roadway infrastructure was better built for the amount of people using them.
There is a HUGE difference between JoCo and NOVA. You may be thinking of the far flung parts of the area such as Loundon County which is more like JoCo both in built environment and culture, although still different. Even those areas are faster paced, and have much more dense development than JoCo does, especially areas along the Silver Metro line. Also the 95 corridor from Springfield on south is probably at least somewhat like JoCo, but still just much busier and more built up.
As you get closer to the beltway, Tyson's Corner, Alexandria all the way to the DC line including areas like Pentagon City and Rosslyn, there is absolutely no comparison between NOVA and JoCo. Even outer areas like Tyons. Just walk through Tysons Mall and then walk through Oak Park Mall. It's a completely different demographic. Much much more diverse (literally every person you look at will likely be from a different part of the world) and more affluent and yes, more sophisticated.
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I guess it depends on what you are looking for, but I don't see NOVA as that much better. Is "built up" the measure of an area? A lot of these are chain-type restaurants and stores. Are we seriously comparing a suburb in the KC area and a suburb in JOCO over a mall? Who even cares about malls anymore - I can't even think of the last time I went in one. Because most of NOVA just looks like newish bland development to me and not a lot of great green space or interconnected parks - mostly roads and bland looking buildings.
Also, I don't see how affluent and "sophisticated" is better - or even that this statement is true considering how many cultures are represented in JOCO. I am not sure what you mean by "sophisticated" either. If it means in terms of tastes, I really don't see how this contributes to daily life - it seems a bit superficial and subjective honestly.
At our office in NOVA, a lot of people transferred from JOCO...it's pretty interchangeable except for the fact that I find biking on the roads are not as easy as in JOCO...streets are not straight and sidewalks aren't everywhere. Pull up any street view of McLean, Tysons, Falls Church...it looks pretty much like JOCO to me except lacking some critical elements like a good interconnected trail system and bike lanes - which is what I think makes a suburb excellent. Even searching for things we like in terms of dining out: Indian, Thai, hibachis, sushi joints - I feel like it's all pretty much the same as any suburb in America.
I seriously think you just have a real anti-JOCO bias, and I don't understand it. It's just a suburb - yeah it's not the best place in the world to live, but at the end of the day it's a pretty nice place to live. But you rail against it like it's something awful.
Last edited by KC_Sleuth; 10-05-2017 at 01:39 PM..
I guess it depends on what you are looking for, but I don't see NOVA as that much better. Is "built up" the measure of an area? A lot of these are chain-type restaurants and stores. Are we seriously comparing a suburb in the KC area and a suburb in JOCO over a mall? Who even cares about malls anymore - I can't even think of the last time I went in one. Because most of NOVA just looks like newish bland development to me and not a lot of great green space.
Also, I don't see how affluent and "sophisticated" is better - or even that this statement is true considering how many cultures are represented in JOCO. I am not sure what you mean by sophisticated either. If it means in terms of tastes, I really don't see how this contributes to daily life - it seems a bit superficial honestly.
At our office in NOVA, a lot of people transferred from JOCO...it's pretty interchangeable except for the fact that I find biking on the roads are not as easy as in JOCO...streets are not straight and sidewalks aren't everywhere. Pull up any street view of McLean, Tysons, Falls Church...it looks pretty much like JOCO to me except lacking some critical elements like a good interconnected trail system and bike lanes - which is what I think makes a suburb excellent.
I seriously think you just have a real anti-JOCO bias, and I don't understand it. It's just a suburb - yeah it's not the best place in the world to live, but at the end of the day it's a pretty nice place to live. But you rail against it like it's something awful.
I'm not a fan of NOVA at all. I'm only speaking of outside the beltway. I actually like much of NOVA inside the beltway. And I never said it was better than JoCo. I just said it was different. You can look on google all you want. They are very different places culturally and from a built environment standpoint. I'm sure you can find some single family areas that resemble JoCo on google, but it's still different. The only major similarity is they are both corporate office park, white collar suburbs. JoCo is just much smaller, less dense and less affluent and less diverse. Like I said before, JoCo is still "kansas". But JoCo is also far less congested and much cheaper. So if you are looking for a traditional suburban single family home with good schools and easy to get around, commute etc, then JoCo is probably much better than the rat race of living in the outer portions of NOVA. Again, I wouldn't live in either one. If was forced to live in JoCo, fairway is probably about the only place I would live there.
I also was not basing it off a mall. I simply used that as an example. And malls are still very popular. The few that remain are as strong as ever. Oak Park vs Tysons is a good comparison. Both are regional destinations so you see a good cross section of the community at them. I'm sure JoCo has people from everywhere too, but it's nothing like NOVA. No way. I live here, I'm in NOVA all the time. Montgomery County in Maryland is the same way.
Maybe this is what I'm confused about. So it's Kansas - are we considering that a slight or a negative?
And it seems like - not only on this thread - but in this forum you really just don't like JOCO. I just don't understand why. You don't show the same animosity towards Lee's Summit or KC Northlands. I've lived in Lee's Summit. I've lived in KCMO. I've lived in JOCO...every place has it's good and bad aspects.
Northern Virginia outside the beltway is hell on earth.
Traffic is awful and many of the roads there are 2 lane roads that were built before development sprouted up.
I lived in Oakton 17 years ago (way before all of the massive new development) and it was a chore to get anywhere. I went back to the area for a business trip back in 2009 and the drive from Tysons Corner to Vienna took absolutely forever.
At least it seemed that in the Maryland suburbs of DC the basic roadway infrastructure was better built for the amount of people using them.
We they are trying to pave their way out of it and it's failing big time. Now they are going all out and high rise and more dense development, especially along the Silver Line, but it might be too late.
Maryland has some nice urban suburbs like Bethesda and Silver Spring that are build around transit. They are now building the purple line to connect Bethesda, to Silver Spring, to College Park to New Carolton. All it will do is connect suburbs together and link to other rail lines like METRO an MARC. It's a great project, but Maryland has some terrible traffic too, especially along I-270 and along the beltway.
Maybe this is what I'm confused about. So it's Kansas - are we considering that a slight or a negative?
And it seems like - not only on this thread - but in this forum you really just don't like JOCO. I just don't understand why. You don't show the same animosity towards Lee's Summit or KC Northlands. I've lived in Lee's Summit. I've lived in KCMO. I've lived in JOCO...every place has it's good and bad aspects.
Short answer? I was born and raised in urban KCMO. I'm from a proud KCMO family going back generations that helped build KC's iconic structures and assets. I was never disrespected nor my home city disrespected by the folks in LS or Northalnd like I was by people from from JOCO. I was able to ignore that and just deal with it, but then when JoCo started poaching companies from KCMO and really starting harming the progress of the metro, I lost all respect for the county. That's not to say that there are good people in JoCo. Obviously there are. But JoCo only wants to be a part of KC when they can take something from it (companies, sports teams etc), claim something from it (KC skyline, museums etc) or use something in KCMO, (Zoo, airport etc).
I never got that feeling from people in the MO suburbs on the same scale. Actually many in JoCo not only looked down on the city, but also the MO suburbs. If I had a buck for every time I said "Umm, there are very good schools in the MO suburbs too"...
I have never been jealous of JoCo, ever, but people there think everybody that puts down JoCo is jealous of it.
So my point is that JoCo is just not all that. It's not impressive at all to people from outside KC area and about as good as it gets for Kansas, but on a national scale, It's nothing at all. The one thing that makes JoCo a decent place to live? It's called KCMO. Without KCMO JoCo wouldn't exist.
JoCo is hostile towards its core city more than almost any other suburb I have seen in any other city. Nearly all growth in JoCo has not come organically but at the expense of KCMO and KCK and it's all heavily subsidized. The county is a fake when it comes to economic growth. The people that live in JoCo mostly don't see it or don't care. I do care. Always have.
So my point is that JoCo is just not all that. It's not impressive at all to people from outside KC area and about as good as it gets for Kansas, but on a national scale, It's nothing at all. The one thing that makes JoCo a decent place to live? It's called KCMO. Without KCMO JoCo wouldn't exist.
JoCo is a great place to live IN SPITE OF KCMO with all its crime. There was another shooting in Westport the weekend before last, after an off-duty Lee's Summit police officer was killed there last month. It's ridiculous.
And I guess it IS impressive to those outside of the KC area; otherwise Overland Park would not be on Money Magazine's Best Places to Live list every. damn. year.
And I guess it IS impressive to those outside of the KC area; otherwise Overland Park would not be on Money Magazine's Best Places to Live list every. damn. year.
No offense but I ever accidently took anything from Money Magazine seriously I'd want somebody to punch me in the face. Talk about a rag...
Overland Park is a nice place to live, but that never kept me from going into the city and enjoying all the cool things there. KCMO, I think the attitude you describe is not one held by younger people...many of the young families I know in JOCO enjoy the city very much and go there a lot for things - spend money there, and contribute to the metro economy. Maybe from 10 years ago that attitude was pervasive...but I think it's waned. I am sure there were a bunch of people afraid of their own shadow who wouldn't go into the city back in the day (my grandparents are kind of like this)...I think those attitudes are finally petering out though.
Just the facts. Unfortunately, crime from KCMO and KCK is now spilling over into Johnson County. It is not the same Johnson County that it was 30 years ago.
The same is true of suburbs of any city. The suburbs are safer. That's why a lot of people choose to live there instead or urban areas. No need to put people down because they want to life in a safer, more upscale suburb.
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