People wonder why "food deserts" exist (St. Louis, Ferguson: 2015, crimes)

[MoNative34]

Originally Posted by luzianne

I don’t consider that being an indoctrinated serf or bondage. I call it citizens working with police to reduce crime. If you have nothing to hide, there’s nothing to worry about. And yes, the neighborhood is safer when police actively patrol and pull over anyone who is suspicious. It’s not “profiling,” it is carrying out their commitment to protect and serve. I for one appreciate the police who keep my neighborhood safe.

How does harassing people that aren't commiting any crime reducing crime? How does willing to be detained for no reason ('they can stop me any time") reduce crime?

I don't have anything to hide either. But I'd like to live in a free society and be on my way like the 4th amendment intended.

[brooksider2brooklyn]

Harassing people?

Just don't be one of the ones that complains when violent crime touches you on a more personal level and you ask why the cops didn't do more to prevent it from happening.

I have been pulled over for minor bs traffic violations in badparts of a couple of cities and in both situations I was quickly on my way.

Unless you are riding dirty or have a criminal history and don't like cops or are just totally un-cooporating, you will be fine.

[thriftylefty]

Any attempts to "catch" criminals IMO only puts numbers on the board. There is at least a generation or two of criminals who are not afraid of getting caught. There was a drug bust recently in the news paper that mentioned that this was the sixth arrest of this individual, in less than six months. I don't think this young man was over 25 years old.

A friend of mine had his car stolen by a juvenile in KCMO, broke the column and ignition switch, and drove the car away. The police report list this as a "tampering" charge, not grand theft auto because its easier on the courts this way.

I was at a school out east (Baltimore) waiting to meet with the principal who was dealing with a serious situation with one of his students. There were two police cars outside. There was young man in the office making small talk with the office staff. You would think the police were there to take him shopping instead of him being arrested. I get profiled once and a while and have had drug dogs sniffing around in my vehicle. I don't get upset because I know that if I was a criminal and had guns and drugs in my car... big deal.

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by MoNative34

How does harassing people that aren't commiting any crime reducing crime? How does willing to be detained for no reason ('they can stop me any time") reduce crime?

I don't have anything to hide either. But I'd like to live in a free society and be on my way like the 4th amendment intended.

How is pulling someone over harassment?

[Chint]

Originally Posted by MoNative34

Then that's on you if you want to be an indoctrinated serf that likes bondage.

It doesn't mean the rest of us should. And it isn't going to make your neighborhood any safer.

That's the life of those who live in places where perpetrator's rights are more important than victim's rights, and where the local strong rule and everyone else has to stay indoors after nightfall. That's actual bondage in practice.


PC indoctrination to the point where it denies human behaviors doesn't make you some morally superior "free" being, it makes you a person who denies in order to agree to a PC normative. As for a safe neighborhood - do you actually live in one? Those of us who do - where we can leave our doors open during the day and not even worry about whether the window is open when we go to the store - know what it takes to make a safe neighborhood. And, please save us from the "crime occurs everywhere" refrain.


A called-for imaginary freedom (for a few, mainly young fit and strong) vs freedom-in-fact with minor inconveniences - no comparison.

[Chint]

Originally Posted by MoNative34

How does harassing people that aren't commiting any crime reducing crime? How does willing to be detained for no reason ('they can stop me any time") reduce crime?

I don't have anything to hide either. But I'd like to live in a free society and be on my way like the 4th amendment intended.

The 4th amendment doesn't give you a free society. The Uk, and many other countries, do not have such an Amendment yet they are plenty free, despite US blolviation (and imagination) about being the most free. The 4th can protect but in virtually all cases you'll read in law books the person asserting 4th rights does actually, in fact, have something to hide - the cops were often not wrong in their instincts. The 4th provides a technical get out - hardly actual societal justice, just a get off free card for the individual successfully asserting it. The freedom of the law-abiding old lady and working family men in the projects of NYC is not protected by the violent drug lord ruling that same project getting evidence thrown out on the 4th, quite the opposite.


Its a nice idea in theory, abused in fact. Any one individual's freedom - especially of perpetrators of crimes - does not automatically equate with societal freedom. In this day and age of perpetrator's rights, that's forgotten.

[Chint]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Again. Spend one night riding in patrol car in a crime ridden urban area. It will change your perspective.

Cops don't just pull over people for driving down the street, but here is the deal. There is just not a lot of people out and about at 2AM in these areas that are not buying or selling drugs, looking for street walkers or carrying illegal weapons. And the cops know a lot of the people they deal with and know their history. Do people realize that the most profiled people in urban ghettos are actually white people? If you are white and suburban looking and driving through a bad part of the city at an odd time, you are a target because chances are the only reason you are there are to buy drugs or sex.

First off weed should be legal or decriminalized at minimum. People should not be worried about being pulled over for having a recreational amount of weed on them. Crack, heroin, meth etc are a different story. But that needs to come down from the state and federal government. The cops have to enforce whatever the law is.

I also think there should more training for cops to de-escalate situations more rather than being aggressive. Some cops can be overly aggressive. However, the same goes for the people they deal with. Many people turn what could have been a quick and peaceful interaction with the police into a much bigger problem by being aggressive and uncooperative with police that are being as patient as they can be.

If you want crime to actually be reduced, you have to stop it before it happens. That means actively trying to find people that are up to no good and getting guns out of cars before a drive by happens or getting hard core drug dealers off the streets. How do you do that without hurting some feelings once in a while?

You can't have it both ways. And the cops and the people they deal with both have to work together to get the true bad guys off the streets. Right now even the innocent people will stand around and video (and even laugh at) a cop getting beat up by a dangerous thug that could have just killed a gas station attendant a half hour earlier or attempted to pull a concealed weapon on a cop. But people would rather put the cops in a bad light?

And people wonder why places like the south side of Chicago are a total lost cause.

You're problem here is that you are a reasonable person arguing with an ideologue. A waste of time.

[MoNative34]

Originally Posted by luzianne

How is pulling someone over harassment?

If they're not committing any crimes or infractions was the point I was making.

[MoNative34]

Originally Posted by brooksider2brooklyn

Harassing people?

Just don't be one of the ones that complains when violent crime touches you on a more personal level and you ask why the cops didn't do more to prevent it from happening.

I have been pulled over for minor bs traffic violations in badparts of a couple of cities and in both situations I was quickly on my way.

Unless you are riding dirty or have a criminal history and don't like cops or are just totally un-cooporating, you will be fine.

The difference is you were committing a traffic violation, therefore they had a reason to detain you. Im talking about being stopped for no reason at all.

And yes, I have dealt with crime. Doesn't mean I want cops doing whatever they damn well please.

[MoNative34]

Originally Posted by Chint

You're problem here is that you are a reasonable person arguing with an ideologue. A waste of time.

I call it having core beliefs.