11-30-2019, 06:04 PM
Location: Kansas City North
264 posts, read
249,932 times
Reputation: 384
Why are we comparing KCI and what it could have been to DEN? Denver has a much larger sphere of influence geographically and is 1-2 tiers above KC. That's not to say KCI isn't outdated though.
11-30-2019, 06:53 PM
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read
53,543,435 times
Reputation: 53068
Looking pretty nuts, there, today.
11-30-2019, 07:37 PM
165 posts, read
142,933 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Traveling Mike
I can never get why everyone always compares KC to Den. I think MSP of today is a better example of missed KC opportunity on many fronts. Denver has always had more of a tourist draw given its natural location, and thus was bound to get more national/ international attention on its revival. Giving it a better position to build its airport out. Now MSP I think is a better arguement for KC airport failures. KC has a much better central location and climate then MSP. Sadly today’s KCI is awful. I’d rather have Eppley Airfield over KCI of today.
To clarify, I'm not making a comparison between DIA and KCI. They are not comparable. One handles 65 million fliers per year, the other 12 million. The Save KCI crowd continually makes that comparison (among others....Chicago, Atlanta, DFW) to support the erroneous claim that all single point of entry (security) and multiple concourse airports are inefficient disasters. KCI (new or old) will never be like DIA because it sees 53 million fewer travellers per year. Not that DIA has any issues anyway.
Last edited by KC_Retiree; 11-30-2019 at 07:57 PM ..
11-30-2019, 07:45 PM
639 posts, read
766,051 times
Reputation: 453
Having to have KC MO residents vote on the new airport terminal was idiotic even if that was the law. Something like 55% or more of people flying out of KC were outside the city limits and people in KC MO who never flew were voting no, thinking they weren't going to get potholes fixed. That vote was the hardest thing I had to try overcome, and not successfully with my friends/co-workers. I read up on the stats of Omaha airport, has 5 million flyers with 130 flights a day out of 20 gates. KC is twice as large a metro and will have 39 gates and has never broken 12 million fliers. I have an old postcard of KCI from when it opened and on the back it says it was built for 10-15 million passengers a year. 48 years later it still hasn't broken 12 million passengers. MSP city and airport is an example of where KC could have been, had the KC metro, had with the right leaders and the right mind set of citizens, and if having been on the same page of thinking bigger and the bigger picture. KC is just a larger Wichita or Omaha, and they are fine cities, than a smaller MSP or Denver in most ways.
12-01-2019, 04:09 AM
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,147 posts, read
9,038,713 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KC_Retiree
To clarify, I'm not making a comparison between DIA and KCI. They are not comparable. One handles 65 million fliers per year, the other 12 million. The Save KCI crowd continually makes that comparison (among others....Chicago, Atlanta, DFW) to support the erroneous claim that all single point of entry (security) and multiple concourse airports are inefficient disasters. KCI (new or old) will never be like DIA because it sees 53 million fewer travellers per year. Not that DIA has any issues anyway.
Just a nit to pick:
DFW is the only other airport in the world built according to the "drive to your gate" basic design of KCI.
It got right a couple of things KCI's design got wrong, however, and I've noted them both already.
12-01-2019, 03:34 PM
165 posts, read
142,933 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MarketStEl
Just a nit to pick:
Point taken. Substitute any big crowded hub in the US. I've actually had people tell they didn't want KCI to become LAX.
It's pretty much water under the bridge now. The new terminal is a done deal.
12-01-2019, 04:11 PM
639 posts, read
766,051 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KC_Retiree
Point taken. Substitute any big crowded hub in the US. I've actually had people tell they didn't want KCI to become LAX.
DFW is an airport I hate to transfer in, because it's like MCI in that gates are only on one side of the terminal. Where/how the new terminal is laid out, the main bldg/entrance/exit hall is probably the right size for 39 gates, 1 million square feet. The only way that I can see the new terminal being expanded is if Terminal B was torn down and they extended the concourse of the new terminal. KC citizens need not worry of MCI/KCI ever being like LAX, or any major hub that they most likely have to change planes in to get their destinations. KC/MCI can only hope to be maybe like STL/Nashville down the road.
12-01-2019, 04:44 PM
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,147 posts, read
9,038,713 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lovekcmo
DFW is an airport I hate to transfer in, because it's like MCI in that gates are only on one side of the terminal.
^^^This.
When KCI was being designed, the arilines generally relied on point-to-point direct connections between cities. Hub-and-spoke operations came about a decade after that.
The drive-to-your-gate design is great if you're beginning or ending your trip at that airport. It's not well suited for a hub operation because it requires passengers changing planes to walk further between their gates in most cases. Those good old finger piers, OTOH, work well with such operations, as do gate-cluster pods like what Southwest uses at Washington National or the setup at LAX.
12-02-2019, 11:47 AM
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read
23,871,538 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KC_Retiree
To clarify, I'm not making a comparison between DIA and KCI. They are not comparable. One handles 65 million fliers per year, the other 12 million. The Save KCI crowd continually makes that comparison (among others....Chicago, Atlanta, DFW) to support the erroneous claim that all single point of entry (security) and multiple concourse airports are inefficient disasters. KCI (new or old) will never be like DIA because it sees 53 million fewer travellers per year. Not that DIA has any issues anyway.
Exactly and DIA doesn't even have issues. Every time I fly there, TSA is only a ten minute wait at most. No matter how busy it looks or how many people show up, it's smooth and quick to get through because they have so many TSA lanes that they can open when needed. At KCI, if three flights depart at close to the same time from one of the consolidated TSA check points, the entire airport just totally bogs down and you can have wait times that far exceed much larger and problematic airport terminals.
So KCI will fail when three flights leave at once. DIA does fine with 53 million passengers a year.
But You do have to walk a lot more at DIA, take people movers etc! Would still choose DIA any day over KCI. Denver people have so many more options and non stops including international. It's awesome having three airports here in the DC area. I fly nonstop everywhere, including international and you have a ton more time slots to choose from. BWI is a Southwest hub, so that's nice too.
12-02-2019, 01:10 PM
142 posts, read
115,760 times
Reputation: 161
But again I”m not saying KCs airport isn’t bad. It clearly is, but I think it’s a reach to say they should be where Denver or DC is. I mean given their location they are likely to be a much bigger hub location. Despite KC being in the middle of the country. If KC still had Midwest express and Midwest airlines this conversation would be very different. It’s just frustrating when those criticize the KCI of today when 20 and 30 years ago the air landscape was so different. Now a new airport comes in and all some want to do in far off places is complain that it’s not big enough not enough service ect.
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People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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