It's between KC and Cincinnati. Convince me! (Kansas City, St. Louis: sales, 2013)
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Hi all. My partner and I are from Michigan and we're trying to move out of state ASAP. We were in KC in October but only for a day and didn't get to go through all the neighborhoods. Our lease is up here in a few days so we're going to revisit both Cincinnati and KC on a quick (socially distanced) road trip to hopefully make up our minds. We are simply looking for a LCOL, medium-sized city where we can start our careers. We'll be renting. We've accepted that whichever city we pick, it will be less exciting due to the pandemic. I have done a ton of research via reddit, CD, bestplaces, etc. to the point where there's nothing more I can find out without asking you and visiting in person. We have already started applying for jobs in both cities, FYI, so hopefully we can snag one before moving. We have plenty saved for the move.
How do you think the city will hold up with COVID? Do you expect the job market to be okay (partner is in environmental science, I'm a creative but am just looking for another office job)? How are you guys spending these quarantine days? Anything else you think we should know? Sell us on KC (or not!)
Both are really cool cities and it's pretty crazy how comparable and similar they are. You really can't go wrong if you are looking at a mid sized affordable metro that has most large city amenities. I hope you are planning to stay in the city. The KC area outside of the urban core of KCMO leaves a lot to be desired honestly. Cincy is probably similar, but I have not spent a lot of time outside the urban core there except right across the river in the Covington area.
I would give KC the slight edge maybe over Cincy if only comparing the cities, but Cincy is better when you take into account the larger region having more recreation and more large cities within a few hours drive. KC is closer to Colorado which I always liked. It really is a toss up though.
Both are really cool cities and it's pretty crazy how comparable and similar they are. You really can't go wrong if you are looking at a mid sized affordable metro that has most large city amenities. I hope you are planning to stay in the city. The KC area outside of the urban core of KCMO leaves a lot to be desired honestly. Cincy is probably similar, but I have not spent a lot of time outside the urban core there except right across the river in the Covington area.
I would give KC the slight edge maybe over Cincy if only comparing the cities, but Cincy is better when you take into account the larger region having more recreation and more large cities within a few hours drive. KC is closer to Colorado which I always liked. It really is a toss up though.
Thanks! I think you're right. They're so similar that we'd likely be happy in either, but the proximity to other interesting cities that Cincinnati has is a big factor for me. It doesn't hold the same weight with my partner because he doesn't think we'll be traveling to other cities due to the pandemic not being anywhere near over, and we might only be living in our new city for a year or so before moving on. So maybe he's right and we should only be concerned with what we can get out of the city and only the city. I dunno.
We've been to CO, have a sister in Denver so I guess it'd be nice to be closer to her, but other than that I don't have a huge desire to explore much more of that are than we already have.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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KC has a faster growing metro population and probably better economy, Cincy has more of a legacy city feel, like a hilly STL. Cincy is closer to Chicago, East Coast, and Appalachia while KC is a bit isolated being further from other cities.
I've lived in both, and definitely prefer Cincy. In fact, if my office hadn't closed in 2013 we would still live there. Having several cities a short drive away is a big plus. Also, the sales and property taxes here in KC( actually Johnson County) are way too high. If you have specific questions, feel free to DM me.
Johnson County != the Kansas City metropolitan area.
The reason taxes are high there is because Sam Brownback wrecked the state's budget and the subordinate jurisdictions were left to clean up the mess themselves.
I will agree that there are more cities close to Cincy than to KC (Columbus, Dayton and Louisville are all 1-1.5 hours away), but there are smaller cities close by (Topeka, Lawrence, St. Joseph, Columbia) that are worth a visit (along with the historic town of Arrow Rock, a Missouri state historical park), and you can even make a day trip of St. Louis, Wichita, Des Moines and Omaha if you leave early enough.
Johnson County != the Kansas City metropolitan area.
The reason taxes are high there is because Sam Brownback wrecked the state's budget and the subordinate jurisdictions were left to clean up the mess themselves.
I will agree that there are more cities close to Cincy than to KC (Columbus, Dayton and Louisville are all 1-1.5 hours away), but there are smaller cities close by (Topeka, Lawrence, St. Joseph, Columbia) that are worth a visit (along with the historic town of Arrow Rock, a Missouri state historical park), and you can even make a day trip of St. Louis, Wichita, Des Moines and Omaha if you leave early enough.
Since we will probably only live here for a year or so, my partner says that proximity to other cities won't matter for us due to the pandemic (traveling during a pandemic when things are closed is no fun). He expects that we will just be focused on enjoying our time in the city we choose. Do you agree that it shouldn't be a factor in our decision because of that? Maybe that even belongs in the pro-Cincy side since I imagine there will be much more to do and explore there even during a pandemic. What would you say to him?
P.S. I'm pretty sure he is only drawn to KC because "it's cheap" and "the BBQ" lol. I mean the city was nice when we saw it last year but when I asked, that was his answer. From my preliminary research KC is slightly *more* expensive than Cincy in most areas. And is the BBQ really that good? (he's the only one who eats meat in this relationship too! I hate the whole BBQ identity thing!)
I would not play down the recreational opportunities around KC like some here have. I'm a huge outdoor enthusiast and I would not be moving to KC if it wasn't for some great opportunities. The Ozarks are a couple of hours away and there is much to do there. My favorite activity is kayaking and I love the variety of spring fed rivers available. Colorado is a 9 hour drive; a bit long for a weekend but I made several 3 day weekend ski trips in my youth. There's even a small ski area north of town that is not that bad, considering the lack of any nearby mountains, if it's cold enough to produce snow. The one thing KC lacks, unless you live in the burbs, are good long cycling trails. There are mountain biking trails in Swope Park and a few extensive cycling trails but they are mostly in the burbs and on the Kansas side. Not sure how Cincinnati fares in that regard.
There's a lot to do culturally in KC as well. I'll never tire of the Nelson, the restaurant scene is great (and not just BBQ), although I am not sure how it will look post CV19, and plenty of other things to do (Starlight, fantastic zoo, and Penn Valley Park and the WWII memorial/museum is a great place to spend time). I'm sure Cincinnati has their version of all those things as well but I've only been through that area once.
Living in Houston presently (where going anywhere is a huge hassle all the time), the one thing I love about KC is the lack of hassle. The downtown area is easy to reach from most points in the metro and there is plenty of parking when there. The streetcar downtown makes north south travel from Crown Center and Union Station into downtown and the River Market very easy. There's some congestion, particularly along I-435 in south KC and Johnson County but the traffic is much better than in most major metros in the US.
Since we will probably only live here for a year or so, my partner says that proximity to other cities won't matter for us due to the pandemic (traveling during a pandemic when things are closed is no fun). He expects that we will just be focused on enjoying our time in the city we choose. Do you agree that it shouldn't be a factor in our decision because of that? Maybe that even belongs in the pro-Cincy side since I imagine there will be much more to do and explore there even during a pandemic. What would you say to him?
P.S. I'm pretty sure he is only drawn to KC because "it's cheap" and "the BBQ" lol. I mean the city was nice when we saw it last year but when I asked, that was his answer. From my preliminary research KC is slightly *more* expensive than Cincy in most areas. And is the BBQ really that good? (he's the only one who eats meat in this relationship too! I hate the whole BBQ identity thing!)
KC_Retiree should have already dispelled the idea that the only things this city has going for it are low COL and BBQ.
I would agree that what the city itself has to offer should matter more than what's around it, but what KC has to offer is far more than what your comments suggest you believe it does.
Cincinnati has museums, I know, but few art museums in the country match the Nelson-Atkins in quality or extent of collections. Its collection of Asian art is one of the finest in the country, and the more recent Henry Bloch Wing attached to the original museum's east end gives it room to show its more recent collections of African and contemporary art. (That last is a very recent addition to the museum, as William Rockhill Nelson forbade the use of his endowment to purchase works of art by anyone not dead for at least 25 years. Mary Atkins' bequest IIRC contains no such stricture, and Henry Bloch actually admires contemporary works and helped acquire many of the notable sculptures that dot the museum's south lawn.) And if you aren't satisfied with the modern art on display at the Nelson-Atkins — which is free to attend, btw, except for special exhibitions — then the Kemper Museum of Contemporary Art, the first and largest modern art museum in Missouri, is just a few blocks to the west on Warwick Boulevard, on the other side of the Kansas City Art Instititute from the Nelson-Atkins.
Cincinnati has a lovely Art Deco Union Station that was recently restored. Kansas City's 1914 Union Station got restored a few years back, and that restoration added a science museum to it as well as a very nice restaurant and an IMAX theater (which may not have reopened yet).
The National World War I Memorial and Museum sits across Pershing Road from Union Station, and just to its east is Crown Center, the live/work/shop/play complex surrounding Hallmark Cards headquarters. When it went up in the 1970s, it was the largest privately financed urban renewal project since Rockefeller Center in New York. (Another New York parallel: When it opened in 1931, the Nelson-Atkins had a bigger endowment than any other museum in the United States save one: New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art.)
And I'm sure Cincinnati has nothing like the Country Club Plaza, the nation's oldest planned shopping center. It's not a mall: its shops and offices are arrayed along city streets, and its buildings are Moorish Revival in architecture.
KC BBQ really is all that, but BBQ is not all that the city has to offer in terms of cuisine. I had a very good meal at a Vietnamese restaurant in the City Market on my last trip Back Home two years ago, and you can find several other global cuisines represented in the local constellation of restaurants. You might want to search the Kansas City Star archives for the "Chow Town" column, which reports news of comings and goings on the local restaurant scene. (Oh, and speaking of local cuisine: I did try Cincinnati-style chili when someone opened a Gold Star Chili franchise on Philadelphia's South Street about 15 or so years ago. It's definitely unique — and definitely an acquired taste. Like Philadelphia cheesesteaks, Cincy chili doesn't travel well; unlike the cheesesteaks, however, it seems no one outside a roughly 200-mile radius of Cincinnati tries their hand at this deconstructed dish.
(Speaking of Philadelphia cheesesteaks, though, one of the few places outside Philly that gets them right is Grinders in the Crossroads Arts District. Their menu boasts that their cheesesteak was "Voted Best Cheesesteak West of the Mississippi," and after eating one, I believe them.)
When it reopens, the Kaufman Center for the Performing Arts is also a must-see (and -experience) venue. You might want to pair it with a First Friday gallery crawl in the Crossroads, in the middle of which it sits.
KC_Retiree already gave you the skinny on Swope Park's amenities and outdoor recreation in the surrounding region, but they left Cliff Drive off the list. This road that hugs the bluff overlooking the Missouri River floodplain on the city's northeast side is the only official state scenic byway in Missouri that's located in an urban area, and on Saturdays, it's closed to auto traffic, which means you can jog and bike along it to your heart's content.
There's more I could list, but I think I'll stop here. (Oh, but I will add this: if you're vegan, you will find that you're swimming against the current in this historic cowtown, but I think there are restaurants there that have fare you can eat. One of them is even a BBQ joint; its owner has a pretty good sense of humor, though, and plays into the meat-centrism in marking them.)
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