[LV10101]

Originally Posted by Buzz123

I agree, but would add that union members are good people (usually), but they are just naïve enough to allow themselves to be used by union leaders who are nothing but mobsters themselves. They use the poor guy who is paying dues to force companies to pay "insurance" so their business isn't destroyed. Or they call off a strike if they are paid off directly. Teamsters money built this town, but the guy paying dues never got a thing out of it, while the union "leaders" got rich ...until some other mobster kills them. Think all that is over with? They just got smarter is all. If you go on strike you will never make back what you lost by not working, because you'll never get that much of a raise out of it. And you are likely to lose the job all together. No wonder U.S. Companies have all gone to China. In the early part of the 19th Century unions forced companies to consider how bad they were treating workers. The leaders of those early unions were actually Communists, like Mother Jones. Too bad about that, but my dad's job went from showing up at 0-dark 30 and hope the foreman picks you to work that day; then put in 12 hours with a 20 minute break in extremely hot conditions, to six 6 hour shifts per week at union wages (which were never really that much), with time and a half for OT, and plenty of breaks.

Tell the union member at one of the resorts who is making $15 an hour that they don't get anything out of it...really? Not sure what union your dad worked for that didn't pay much but most pay well. I've been both union and non-union, even with union dues you come out far ahead of the non-union person doing the same job. Why do you think companies like Walmart spend so much an anti-union tactics...are they trying to protect their employees...lol. You are also talking about the days the mob controlled some unions, those days are gone. You fail to realize the laws related to unions are more strict that most laws companies have to abide by.

[LV10101]

Von949...Not sure what your point is??? Again McDonalds already has a ton of automation in their restaurants. To think the raising of minimum wage is going to change there path from what it currently is doesn't make sense. No matter if the wage is $9 or $15 they will continue to automate as much as possible. Walmart has self checkout...again automation and has no plans on raising their average pay from $8 an hour. To say we should prevent pay increases because we are scared of automation is ridiculous.

[EA]

When the mob ran things...things were great...

[Clarkcty]

Originally Posted by LV10101

Von949...Not sure what your point is??? Again McDonalds already has a ton of automation in their restaurants. To think the raising of minimum wage is going to change there path from what it currently is doesn't make sense. No matter if the wage is $9 or $15 they will continue to automate as much as possible. Walmart has self checkout...again automation and has no plans on raising their average pay from $8 an hour. To say we should prevent pay increases because we are scared of automation is ridiculous.

Yes resort operators are adding kiosks to bring down overhead. Not only in fastfood restaurants, buffets are adding fountain machines so that it will lessen the need for servers to get your drink.

I have a family who works as a Front Desk clerk, resorts are also looking to automate the Check In process. It will not entirely wipe out all Front Desk agents, visitors and guests still need human contact/interaction but it is a way for resort operators to bring down overhead. Imagine, resort operators will not have to pay wages and insurance on a kiosk!

[Clarkcty]

Forgot to add, resorts are also adding kiosks in Buffet restaurants to lessen the reliance on Cashiers.

[EA]

As we continue to push workers into obscurity at an ever increasing pace, who then, is going to continue paying for products and services?
I know you're sitting there thinking "I'm safe. My job can't be automated." well, I have news for you. EVERY job can be automated. It's a matter of when. As the efficacy of automation proves itself, our secure employment is encroached upon.
Where it once took an entire room to compute simple math problems, we now find far more computing power in a child's toy from China. As simple tasks are taken over by machines, complex jobs are next.
In our lifetime, human work will be obsolete. It has nothing to do with our wages. It has to do with greed. Companies ceaselessly seek out ways to decrease overhead and increase profits. It's the nature of the beast. No matter how cheap we work for, we are still limited. Machines are limitless. Can you label 10,000 bottles an hour? A machine can. Can you scour the financial records of a company in milliseconds? A machine can.
machines write music, create logos and content, draw complex artwork. There is nothing you can do that a machine, one day, won't be able to do.

I think our attitude towards "lesser" people dooms us to a similar fate, and rightly so.

[BBMW]

I know what I see. Any time I walk into these places, there's a small army of people behind the countrr doing jobs that can easily be automated (taking orders, filling drinks, making fries, etc.).

Why haven't they gone it yet? Because humans are still cheap enough to be viable. Force the employers to give the workers a 40% raise, just watch how quickly they'll find ways to squeeze out a large percentage of those workers.

As far as your studies, I smell a union rat. I have a feeling these were done by organizations with an agenda.

As far as the Waltons, if there employees are on welfsre, those programs are obviously way to generous and need to be cut.

Originally Posted by LV10101

BBMW...I think you are a little behind the curve when you talk about "they could" automate fast food...have you seen the current automation in your local McDonalds...check it out sometime. They will automate more and more, no matter if pay goes up or not. "Offshoring" again where have you been?

Please tell me more about this major blow-back because numerous studies conducted on a sharp raise of the minimum wage would have no measurable effect on employment. Furthermore a recent study conducted on the increase of Seattle's minimum wage to $15 an hour showed that the average cost of eating out would increase by 7%...so that McDonalds number 1 would cost about $0.50 more...a cost of a $30 meal at an actual restaurant would be $2.10 more. There have been other studies showing companies would be saving money with an increase of the minimum wage, why? They would have less turnover, which results in less hiring costs and less continued training costs. So please tell me more about this "major blow-back" you are talking about???

The Waltons are worth $150 BILLION and we continue to subsidize their employees on welfare, does that make sense to you??? Please stop attacking the poor/middle class and look at what is really causing the problems in this country.

[FrostyToasty]

Originally Posted by LV10101

BBMW...I think you are a little behind the curve when you talk about "they could" automate fast food...have you seen the current automation in your local McDonalds...check it out sometime. They will automate more and more, no matter if pay goes up or not. "Offshoring" again where have you been?

Please tell me more about this major blow-back because numerous studies conducted on a sharp raise of the minimum wage would have no measurable effect on employment. Furthermore a recent study conducted on the increase of Seattle's minimum wage to $15 an hour showed that the average cost of eating out would increase by 7%...so that McDonalds number 1 would cost about $0.50 more...a cost of a $30 meal at an actual restaurant would be $2.10 more. There have been other studies showing companies would be saving money with an increase of the minimum wage, why? They would have less turnover, which results in less hiring costs and less continued training costs. So please tell me more about this "major blow-back" you are talking about???

The Waltons are worth $150 BILLION and we continue to subsidize their employees on welfare, does that make sense to you??? Please stop attacking the poor/middle class and look at what is really causing the problems in this country.

There are plenty of studies that show that raising minimum wages hurts the poor and increases unemployment. Such studies are printed even in traditionally left leaning new sources. Here's a couple:

The Mythology of the Minimum Wage*|*Douglas Holtz-Eakin
Raising Minimum Wage Is Misguided Policy - NYTimes.com

$15 minimum wage when the median US hourly wage is approximately $17 is absurd. You'd essentially be telling half the population that there is no reason to obtain job skills or further their education as such investments would yield minimal financial benefits. Minimum wage is not meant to be a comfortable living wage. You're not going to find many economists that think setting the minimum wage right where the median wage is, would be economically beneficial.

This study shows that minimum wage that exceeds 45% of the average wage is harmful to small wage earners and that a minimum wage that is less than 45% has very little risk for low wage earners. Based on this, it concludes that minimum wage should be no more than $9/hr.

Greg Mankiw's Excellent Question: Why a $9 Minimum Wage? Why Not $90? Or 90 cents? - Forbes

[LV10101]

Originally Posted by Clarkcty

Yes resort operators are adding kiosks to bring down overhead. Not only in fastfood restaurants, buffets are adding fountain machines so that it will lessen the need for servers to get your drink.

I have a family who works as a Front Desk clerk, resorts are also looking to automate the Check In process. It will not entirely wipe out all Front Desk agents, visitors and guests still need human contact/interaction but it is a way for resort operators to bring down overhead. Imagine, resort operators will not have to pay wages and insurance on a kiosk!

Again, another person behind the times. Buffets and many fast food restaurants have had self service soda machines for MANY years...where have you been?

Front desk agents, there are already hotels that have self check-in machines and NO you do not have to talk to a human, the machine does it all. Airports, DMVs, car rental companies all have self-service machines.

No you don't have to pay wages on kiosk but you do have to pay someone with knowledge to fix them. You also will never get rid of the majority of front line people because people want to talk to people, not kiosks.

[LV10101]

Originally Posted by EA

As we continue to push workers into obscurity at an ever increasing pace, who then, is going to continue paying for products and services?
I know you're sitting there thinking "I'm safe. My job can't be automated." well, I have news for you. EVERY job can be automated. It's a matter of when. As the efficacy of automation proves itself, our secure employment is encroached upon.
Where it once took an entire room to compute simple math problems, we now find far more computing power in a child's toy from China. As simple tasks are taken over by machines, complex jobs are next.
In our lifetime, human work will be obsolete. It has nothing to do with our wages. It has to do with greed. Companies ceaselessly seek out ways to decrease overhead and increase profits. It's the nature of the beast. No matter how cheap we work for, we are still limited. Machines are limitless. Can you label 10,000 bottles an hour? A machine can. Can you scour the financial records of a company in milliseconds? A machine can.
machines write music, create logos and content, draw complex artwork. There is nothing you can do that a machine, one day, won't be able to do.

I think our attitude towards "lesser" people dooms us to a similar fate, and rightly so.

I think you want to stop progress and that is impossible. You mention all this automation but fail to realize with all the automated machines comes jobs programming, working on, selling all of those automated machines. If you fail to realize how large Microsoft or Apple is...those jobs would be non-existent without those "machines". Yes some jobs disappear but other are created with progress in technology. Do you want to live in the dark ages? Do you fail to realize all the automation and machines you talk about have saved millions of lives and added technology that we wouldn't be able to live without.