[tijlover]

I only use San Diego to fly into, and I can never get to the Border quick enough, on the Tijuana/San Ysidro Trolley, to escape the conservatism/sterility of San Diego!

[tijlover]

The many Chinese buyers of homes in CA sing Yippy-I-Yo-Ky-Ay when someone flees the state of CA and you're not going to hear them complaining about high taxes! Even the Governor, Jerry Brown, says Good Riddance!

There are states with a history of high taxes (OR, MN, HI, Vermont) and you don't hear them complain, as many feel they're getting their money's worth with high taxes!

Problem arises, when retirement comes, and then many are forced to flee, to states like AZ/NV where they organize themselves and make sure any increase in taxes is defeated, depriving the citizenry who could benefit from higher taxes! There's a word for that: cruelty!

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by tijlover

The many Chinese buyers of homes in CA sing Yippy-I-Yo-Ky-Ay when someone flees the state of CA and you're not going to hear them complaining about high taxes! Even the Governor, Jerry Brown, says Good Riddance!

There are states with a history of high taxes (OR, MN, HI, Vermont) and you don't hear them complain, as many feel they're getting their money's worth with high taxes!

Problem arises, when retirement comes, and then many are forced to flee, to states like AZ/NV where they organize themselves and make sure any increase in taxes is defeated, depriving the citizenry who could benefit from higher taxes! There's a word for that: cruelty!

I have another word for it.....not reality. And sure, you won't hear them complaining, but actions speak louder than words and you'll see them moving in droves and where they are moving from and too as shown in the 2010 census is very revealing....to escape high cost of living/taxes as a major reason. And of course where the jobs are.

Not sure where you are from but I lived for a long time in a "tax everything that moves state". The local and school property taxes we paid for decades on a nice typical suburban home would make most people faint and I still have no idea what I was paying for. In AZ, we pay a fraction in local and school taxes in comparison yet get more "services"(bulk trash pickup, fire department services like "free" varmint/snake removal in our city, etc.). And the AZ city is much more responsive to our needs when I need to call about a matter, a permit, etc. and much better organized and manage their resources(money) well. Our school system is just as good if not better than the high tax state we lived in. And a much nicer school building/facility. Lots of those taxes I've learned we payed in the high tax state went to multiple levels of admin/bureaucracy that have nothing to do with providing a "service" or "benefit" to previous suckers like me and my neighbors who lived in said community. I think most people have no problem paying taxes as long as they see that they and those in their community are getting value. And in my view, that's the way it should be.

Many of the CA escapees are ending up in your back yard, including lots of retired state workers from CA:

Why CalPERS retirees flee California | The Sacramento Bee

[FrostyToasty]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Interesting how so many of you Californian's are fleeing from all parts of California into "Vegas, Phoenix, and etc."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/up...ia-exodus.html

"Over the last few decades, millions of Californians have left the Golden State for opportunities elsewhere. According to census data compiled by my colleague Rob Gebeloff, the Pacific Northwest and fast growing Sunbelt states like Texas, Arizona and Nevada have attracted a disproportionate share of ex-Californians."

Paradise lost. Last one out please turn off the light.

California has one of the highest domestic migration loss of any state. There's nearly 100,000 more people moving out of the state than moving into it domestically each year.

State-to-State Population Migration

I was born in California and lived there the overwhelming majority of my life. The only way I would even consider moving back to California again is if they eliminated the state income tax which they would never do so I'm never moving back.

[Willy702]

Originally Posted by FrostyToasty

California has one of the highest domestic migration loss of any state. There's nearly 100,000 more people moving out of the state than moving into it domestically each year.

State-to-State Population Migration

I was born in California and lived there the overwhelming majority of my life. The only way I would even consider moving back to California again is if they eliminated the state income tax which they would never do so I'm never moving back.

Why should they reduce it? There are more ways to compete economically than just low taxes. If it was truly onerous taxation the population would drop drastically, but it continues to grow slightly.

[FrostyToasty]

Originally Posted by Willy702

Why should they reduce it?

Because California has by far the highest state income tax rates out of all states. This is a very bloated government.

If it was truly onerous taxation the population would drop drastically, but it continues to grow slightly.

California's population continues to grow only because it's a popular destination among immigrants. Both legal and illegal. I guess Hollywood's glamorization of California would do that. But as far as US residents, it's had a net loss every year for 15 straight years now. People are leaving California in droves. Especially the rich.

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by FrostyToasty

California has one of the highest domestic migration loss of any state. There's nearly 100,000 more people moving out of the state than moving into it domestically each year.

State-to-State Population Migration

I was born in California and lived there the overwhelming majority of my life. The only way I would even consider moving back to California again is if they eliminated the state income tax which they would never do so I'm never moving back.

Eliminate the state income tax, and? Up goes the property taxes or sales taxes, like Texas!
Eliminate the sales tax, and up goes the state income tax and property taxes, like Oregon!
Yes, you could even eliminate property taxes, and? Skyward goes the state income tax and sales taxes!

Pick your poison!

[modhatter]

Santa Fe, New Mexico is a very lovely town with great architecture, and a thriving art community. Weather is mild as well. Has fantastic old world Spanish architecture. https://www.google.com/search?q=sant...FQ4-iAodnMQAFw

I would chose Montecito or Santa Barbara over San Diago as far as beauty and community. It is by far my favorite place (money being no object)

Montecito: https://www.google.com/search?q=Mont...FYlXiAodQwgH4A

[FrostyToasty]

Originally Posted by tijlover

Eliminate the state income tax, and? Up goes the property taxes or sales taxes, like Texas!
Eliminate the sales tax, and up goes the state income tax and property taxes, like Oregon!
Yes, you could even eliminate property taxes, and? Skyward goes the state income tax and sales taxes!

Pick your poison!

I'd be willing to put up with higher property taxes or sales taxes if it meant no state income tax. The state income tax is what's going to kill me the most. It's not even a close comparison. For me the difference between no state income tax and California state income tax would end up being over $1 million over the next decade and likely several millions over a lifetime.

So the poison I would pick is definitely no state income tax in exchange for any other tax.

[Willy702]

Originally Posted by FrostyToasty

Because California has by far the highest state income tax rates out of all states. This is a very bloated government.


California's population continues to grow only because it's a popular destination among immigrants. Both legal and illegal. I guess Hollywood's glamorization of California would do that. But as far as US residents, it's had a net loss every year for 15 straight years now. People are leaving California in droves. Especially the rich.

Sorry to tell you but your numbers are meaningless. No one is listening to voices like yours in California because the economy continues to grow, population continues to grow and housing prices and other commonly viewed economic indicators are growing too. Doesn't matter who is leaving, all the pretty charts just look pointless in the bigger picture.

The whole lower taxes are everything argument gets old. All the tax engineering attempted in the last few decades has largely failed because state taxes are just not important enough to truly swing major decisions. Even at the highest tax level in California or New York, the biggest earners aren't going anywhere because they become the biggest earners by being in those markets. They would take too big a hit to go elsewhere. The lower earners do take painful hits and understandably some of them leave, but no state should worry too much about the lower earners and lesser skilled leaving unless literally no one shows up to take their place.

Kansas should have ended this debate but amazingly the public doesn't get to hear about the disaster there. Kansas thought low taxes should bring new businesses in droves. Well low taxes brought some business people and a few made good on the situation and saved a bundle in taxes. Others though just noticed Kansas's economy is pretty small and low taxes weren't improving it much and were created almost none of the promised new jobs. To see how effective it was, notice people from neighboring Missouri wouldn't even move there. They pretty much saw through the whole charade. Now Kansas public finances are a disaster and even the most ardent conservatives grudgingly accept they have to raise taxes or see a fiscal nightmare run out of control.