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So we should sacrifice our grandparents and the large retirement community here for the good of the economy and the stock market? Comes off rather heartless. Tell that to yellowsnow whose friend died. Chances are we're all going to know somebody that dies from this.
You don't have to sacrifice your grandparents or anyone in the retirement community. They're free to stay home and avoid all of this if they wish. If they're retired, they shouldn't be having any problems with income, anyways. They can easily stay home and order grocery delivery from any of the multiple grocery delivery services available locally.
I saw yellowsnow's post and while I am sympathetic to yellowsnow's situation, its hardly representative of the larger picture at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry Lee Gather
It's going to be a lot more than ten people that die from this when 20% of those infected need medical treatment while the other 80% recover at home in quarantine.
There is no doubt in my mind that the number will go higher. However, 10/3,100,000 does not an emergency make.
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Originally Posted by Merry Lee Gather
The whole point of social distancing and the closing of non-essential businesses is to provide more serious intervention to stem the tide of infections, so that we don't overload and collapse our healthcare systems. It doesn't mean that businesses can't make money. Some have been able to adapt to it knowing it's temporary. Plus there is a 2 trillion bailout package that passed. Most of that will go to big businesses, while smaller businesses may have to file for bankruptcy and some workers that qualify will be getting stimulus checks or unemployment. It may be a temporary recession or a depression. That remains to be seen.
So.... many (and probably most) smaller businesses should be forced to file bankruptcy in order to save some unknown number of people, currently about 1.6% of the diagnosed population. And about .02% of the overall population of the state of Nevada?
Anyone with economic sense can tell you the 2T "bailout" stimulus checks probably aren't going to get most people through much more than a month, if that.
A HUGE portion of Nevada's businesses are currently forcibly closed and cannot make money. The remaining businesses absolutely cannot provide employment sufficient to offset the number of unemployed who cannot currently produce income.
IMHO, we are on the tip of a great depression that's going to be far larger than any this country has ever seen, if we can't get people back to work immediately. There are already serious repercussions to what has already occurred and the IMF has already declared that the US is officially in a recession - AMAZING.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry Lee Gather
However, The more people that stay home the less this highly contagious viral pneumonia spreads. Hospitals are already using up their limited resources such as PPE, N95 masks, ventilators and ICU beds to treat COVID19 cases and they have calls out to the public for needed supplies if they have any. In NYC, the epicenter of the pandemic now, hospitals are overflowing and they're renting refrigerator trucks to store the bodies in of those that died. The less cases that go to the hospital the less resources are used and the less people die.
This is neither here nor there. Mass quarantine will likely lower the peak load on hospitals, but it will not eliminate it, nor is it likely to reduce the total number of infections we will ultimately see. It will simply spread them over a larger, "more manageable" timeframe. Although, I have to question this because so far as I can see, both peak and "flattened peak" load exceed our ER capacity, so it doesn't seem that we're actually better off either way.
NYC ordered 85 refrigerated tractor trailers. However, they are not in use, yet. In fact, they're not even all in NYC, yet.
I don't see any evidence that NYC hospitals are overflowing. I see a single video from an ER nurse showing a single room with about 10 people on respirators who sold her story to the New York Times.
If you took a look at any of the leaked videos out of Wuhan, what is happening here, at this point in the epidemic, is absolutely nothing like what we saw in those videos. I am not a medical doctor and I can't really tell you why that is for sure, but there are a few things I can make some educated guesses about. FWIW, I've been tracking this issue since early January.
- General cleanliness and sanitary standards in China do not meet US standards.
- The US, generally speaking, does not operate any large scale wet markets of the style operated in China. Specifically, lacking in general sanitation and refrigeration.
- The US, generally speaking, does not eat any raw meats. Even sushi is actually cooked.
- The US does not have open air meat markets operating directly adjacent to biological weapons labs.
- The US has medical care facilities and access that is significantly better than those available in China
- The US has organizations dedicated to monitoring outbreaks and public health
- The COVID-19 virus causes cytokine storms in people with large numbers of ACE2 receptors. Mongoloids, on average, have much larger numbers of ACE2 receptors than other races. This means that cytokine syndrome is significantly more likely to occur in members of the Asian population. This is why you may have seen videos of people in China and elsewhere dropping dead in the street.
- The US is using a test that is much more accurate than the one developed by the WHO.
- The US has not been boarding up or welding shut the doors and windows of apartment buildings with known infected citizens while other non-infected citizens still reside there.
- The US did not detain healthcare workers who sounded alarms about the outbreaks early-on while taking no further action.
- COVID-19 has been mutating at an extremely fast rate. Varying strains will also have varying effects.
I guess I could go on, but that's probably enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry Lee Gather
This isn't a flu or a cold. They don't shut entire countries down in Europe for the flu. Nobody has immunity to this disease because it's new. Plus we have vaccines for the flu and have enough equipment to handle it seasonally but we don't have what we need for this pandemic even though they ran a simulation in 2016 and knew what we needed but ignored it. A pandemic doesn't care about the economy. It's on it's own timeline.
Well, specifically, its a genetically modified flu virus. Vaccines only protect against the strains they were designed for. These change and mutate with regularity.
Quoting the CDC, the H1N1 Swine Flu pandemic in 2009 was much worse than this, but we didn't shut everything down or take the drastic measures we are taking now as a result. I quote:
"From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus."
The Nevada shutdown ends April 16th. That's when the 30 days are up. They may extend it if we haven't peaked yet. The top epidemiologist in the country suggested that this will come in waves and we may need to shut down more than once. The Spanish flu of 1918 came in three waves and the second wave was the most deadly. Hopefully by the second wave of COVID19 we have more ventilators, PPE and N95 masks and can get ahead of this. As it is we're already behind because of the delayed response to this by the President calling it a hoax and not taking it seriously, and he fired the people needed to handle this previously. It's quite the mess we're in and the Governors both democrats and republicans have been scrambling to handle it because they know they're on their own.
CDC's stats show that we peaked 3/13. I'm sure it is entirely possible that there will be more waves. Commerce was not shutdown during the Spanish Flu of 1918, nor was it shutdown in 2009, and we're all still here.
The President didn't call COVID-19 a hoax. He stated that the media's reaction and claims that his administration had failed to take action were a hoax. For example, the media at that time he made the statement claimed that the admin had "taken no action" and this is false. Flights from effected areas were already shutdown as of 1/6/20 and the only people allowed to fly in to the US from affected areas were either citizens or green card holders who already lived here. Those people were subject to medical examinations upon arrival and before release into the general population.
Don't believe everything you see on CNN and MSNBC.
Excuse me the President did call it a Democrat hoax. He's on video saying this. You've been duped and on the rest of the stuff too. Stop watching Fox news. It's a known propaganda channel of the right wing, and an echo chamber. From his response to the epidemic the president is unfit. Period. He has so bungled this that many more than should will die of this and he knows it.
Here is what should be done. President releases a statement saying "There is a highly infectious disease on the way to America. It has great potential to kill a lot of people. We would urge you to stay home as a precaution."
The end.
People can CHOOSE to stay home or CHOOSE to go out and risk infection.
The important part is their freedom to choose.
I choose to stay home as much as possible. A lot of people would choose to risk it and if they all die, so be it. They made their choice and now I can afford a beach house.
Excuse me the President did call it a Democrat hoax. He's on video saying this. You've been duped and on the rest of the stuff too. Stop watching Fox news. It's a known propaganda channel of the right wing, and an echo chamber. From his response to the epidemic the president is unfit. Period. He has so bungled this that many more than should will die of this and he knows it.
I do not have cable and I do not have Fox News. Everything I have stated is based on many, many hours of research in to the issue using multiple sources.
In my personal opinion, Fox News is just as much a rag as all of the other cable news stations and I don't care to watch any of them.
I am not sure what the board rules are in regards to something like this, but I have been compiling links to videos over the past few months of what has been going on in Wuhan. I might post them here, but not sure they would meet the board rules in terms of content as many of them are "graphic".
People still have a lot of freedom to choose EA. I don't wish you dead even with your 20% lung capacity. The President has pretty much left us on our own with little federal guidance and what he does provide at his daily briefings are lies and misleading, so much so that many news outlets have stopped airing them.
That's good to know equid0x. I haven't watched TV since 2003 so I don't know what's happening on MSNBC which is too much corporate media for me, or CNN which is centrist but more fair to progressives since they bring them on sometimes.
However, I do watch independent progressive news outlets on YouTube such as TYT, Secular Talk, Majority Report, Rational National, Humanist Report for years now. I'm a progressive through and through. Give me policies over platitudes. I know what I stand for more than most.
Average days to death from contracting the virus is 23.5 iirc so it just depends on how many days the US is behind. I expect the number of deaths to skyrocket within the next 2 weeks or so, as well as the number of cases.
Even with these morbid numbers, there is hope. Those that get it and recover will re-enter the workforce, and those numbers will grow and eventually things will get back to normal. Eventually might mean 2 years or more, or it could be much less than that. What's important to know is that once we see the light at the end of the tunnel, everything will bounce back.
The COVID-19 virus causes cytokine storms in people with large numbers of ACE2 receptors. Mongoloids, on average, have much larger numbers of ACE2 receptors than other races. This means that cytokine syndrome is significantly more likely to occur in members of the Asian population. This is why you may have seen videos of people in China and elsewhere dropping dead in the street.
Reference for that? The reading I've done suggests race doesn't matter when it comes to the number of ace2 receptors in the lungs, specifically the alveoli. The main factors are age and existing conditions (that require ace inhibitors).
Yes, we haven't reached peak yet. The next few weeks in April will tell the difference though I'm unsure which week it will be yet. First week or second week or beyond that has yet to remain. Also there is no data to tell if it is particular to race which is why I ignored that data. I don't pay much attention to eugenics because of it's bogus prior historical importance. It's BS since the second world war and if they don't know that then they're just plain ignorant to facts.
The dumbest governor in the history of Nevada, Steve Sisolak, yesterday said he would like you to know that he is "working hard" to get relief for those out of work because of his monumentally stupid idea of shuttering businesses in the state. He said this precisely TEN days after he ordered businesses shuttered in Nevada. People are out of work, scared, anxious, likely many depressed, many of them watching businesses they spent years building evaporate within days. Yes governor, a business can evaporate very quickly when it is shut down. Sisolak apparently doesn't understand that, as he doesn't understand a lot of very basic things in life. But hey fellow Nevadans, Sisolak The Stupid wants you to know he is trying very hard for you!
Obviously, Sisolak did not think the matter through. He didn't have a plan. You see, if you shutter businesses across the state then they are going to hurt very badly, both employees and owners. So, if you have half a brain, you think this through ahead of time and come up with a plan to help them. Of course, Sisolak being Sisolak, the governor did not do this. He obviously had no plan at all, as he admitted yesterday, ten days after he ordered businesses in this state shuttered. What's really happening here is that he is beginning to panic. He knows he did the wrong thing in shuttering all businesses, and he's trying to spin it and obviously make it seems as if he actually gives a damn, which he doesn't. It makes him look even more a fool, which I didn't think was possible for this buffoon.
Sisolak the stupid strikes again. I told you all the other day that people that are this stupid tend to keep doing stupid things. Sisolak is one of those types of people. His recall by the people is imperative to the health and welfare of the State of Nevada and all of its people. Failing that, his defeat at the next election becomes even more necessary.
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