[ndb3]

[tazz]

Originally Posted by Kaiminani

Drug tests are a real joke. They don't actually test for drugs, they are really just means tests.

Say the job pays $30K/yr and the drug test is the only thing standing in your way -- then it makes sense to spend at least a couple of grand on circumventing the test; and the higher the salary, the more it makes sense to spend on beating the test. When you are willing to spend that kind of money, there are all kinds of options. For example, you can hire someone who is clean and get them a fake-id in your name. A couple of grand will get you a really good fake-id, hell a couple of hundred will get you one that is good enough to fool the desk clerk at the test site. If you are lucky, you can find someone who looks enough like the picture on your id that they can just use the real one.
Or you can resort to simple bribery - you think the person who is supposed to watch you pee in a cup would be willing to be accidentally distracted for a few seconds in return for a couple of thousand dollars? Or how about mixing up a couple of samples so that some other schmcuk gets his name on your cup o' pee and vice versa? Plenty of options for a clever person with some money to spend. (I can't believe schmcuk is auto-censored here, wtf?)

Drug tests are more about testing if you are a good little drone than they are about the safety or security of the workplace. Will you jump through yet another arbitrary and pointless hoop in order to become part of the corporate hive? If you don't need a drug test in order to get a security clearance from the government (and you don't) then it seems really out of proportion for most any other job. The jobs were safety is important (heavy machinery operator, etc) ought to test for impairment not drug use - staying up all night and coming in to work with no sleep will make you 100x more of a safety risk then smoking a joint after dinner the night before would.

You know that pot makes you paranoid, right?

[kek1993]

Interesting, apply with CCSD as a teacher, no drug test. Apply to be a janitor at Ceasar's Palace, drug test...

Hmmm...

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by kek1993

Interesting, apply with CCSD as a teacher, no drug test. Apply to be a janitor at Ceasar's Palace, drug test...

Hmmm...

For goodness sake. If you are not willing to stay off whatever for a couple of months to get a job you want...you did not want it very much. Hell I might fast a month for a good return.

Be good for my form too.

[Kaiminani]

Originally Posted by Daddys///M3

No, not a drug test. A polygraph test. And they will likely ask about drug usage in detail dating back 10 years or more.

Polys are only required for certain kinds of top-secret clearances - not the vastly more common secret clearance - and even then the lifestyle poly is even rarer. And don't even get me started on how useless they are - their only value is if the subject thinks they work. Anyone can beat a poly with about 30 minutes of practice - hell, Penn & Teller even did an episode of their Bullsiht program on just how bogus polys are -- they are so bogus they aren't even admissible in court.

unfortunately MJ is still illegal in this country.

And so are murder, prostitution, speeding, jay-walking, embezzlement, driving without a license, driving without insurance and about a million other things. They aren't testing for those, why should unconvicted illegal drug use be any different?

As far as the corporate hive goes, well yeah. It's not a stretch to think that corporations want employees that will follow company policies. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

No matter how pointless and even demeaning those policies are? Sorry dude, but that's pretty unamerican and inhuman too. The most creative and successful company I ever worked for had the following as the first rule in their HR guide - "1. We will not do something stupid just because it is written down."

The rest of your post is pretty out there so without further ado:

Do you really think that my demonstrating just how trivial it is to circumvent drug-testing is "pretty out there?" Seriously? Did you skip "the emperor has no clothes" story when you were a kid?

Originally Posted by Tazz

You know that pot makes you paranoid, right?

Sorry dude, can't use that excuse on me, I've been pretty much straightedge since I was a teenager and figured out just how destructive the war on some drugs was to our constitutional freedoms. Funny though that you would see what I wrote as paranoid - refer you too to the story about the emperor's clothes.

[Kaiminani]

Originally Posted by olecapt

For goodness sake. If you are not willing to stay off whatever for a couple of months to get a job you want...you did not want it very much. Hell I might fast a month for a good return.

Be good for my form too.

The point isn't whether or not a drug user is willing to stop using or not - the point is that the employer is essentially accusing anyone who wants to work for them of being a criminal with absolutely no grounds for suspicion. AND they are judging the validity of that accusation on an extremely unreliable test.

Those considering responding that "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" should keep in mind that was Erich Honecker's attitude too.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by Kaiminani

The point isn't whether or not a drug user is willing to stop using or not - the point is that the employer is essentially accusing anyone who wants to work for them of being a criminal with absolutely no grounds for suspicion. AND they are judging the validity of that accusation on an extremely unreliable test.

Those considering responding that "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" should keep in mind that was Erich Honecker's attitude too.

Sorry the employer has a right to validate your credientials. He can request the college records for your degree or your high school records. He can also validate any special certification you may have.

If he believes non drug use is good for his business (or required by law) He can ask you to submit to such a test. Just evidence of some item that the employer requires.

In my particular working life I have never been drug tested. Not sure I would agree to it. Have had some reaonably interesting security clearances. But of the we want you to do something for us class. Amazing where you can get if they want you there...

So straighten up for a few months and pass the drug test. At least it gives you a base in what reality is like.

[tijlover]

I have my drug prescriptions filled in Tijuana. Even with airfare, I still come way out ahead as I buy enough to last a year or more.

When down there you can get a prescription for just about anything, even via a telephone call from the pharmacy to the doctor. Sight unseen. $30 for the prescription.

I could buy Soma's (which has been referred to as synthetic heroin) over-the-counter, no prescription, until quite recently.

Some of these drugs are comparable to anything illegal. But if I get a prescription for it in TJ, and I'm drug tested here, would there be a problem?

I understand prescriptions are honored on both sides of the border. True?

[Daddys///M3]

Originally Posted by Kaiminani

Polys are only required for certain kinds of top-secret clearances - not the vastly more common secret clearance - and even then the lifestyle poly is even rarer. And don't even get me started on how useless they are - their only value is if the subject thinks they work. Anyone can beat a poly with about 30 minutes of practice - hell, Penn & Teller even did an episode of their Bullsiht program on just how bogus polys are -- they are so bogus they aren't even admissible in court.

I don't disagree, simply pointing out that they are, in fact, required. FWIW, I don't know that I would trust my future to P&T's pucker your bunghole tactic to beat a polygraph (they can be full of it too). It has also come to my attention that many government agencies do require drug tests for their secret PCL, according to a third party site. In their words: "The majority of clearance denials involving drugs, alcohol, and criminal activity also involve providing false information" and "With rare exceptions the following will result in clearance denial: current unlawful use of or addiction to a controlled substance". And one more time for good measure: "Otherwise, the most common reasons for clearance denial are serious repeated financial problems, intentional false statements in connection with a clearance investigation, recent illegal drug involvement, repeated alcohol abuse, and a pattern of criminal conduct or rule violation. For most people these issues can be mitigated, if presented properly during a security interview.

Originally Posted by Kaiminani

And so are murder, prostitution, 1. speeding, jay-walking, 2. embezzlement, 3. driving without a license, driving without insurance and about a million other things. They aren't testing for those, why should unconvicted illegal drug use be any different?

1. and 3. Have you ever tried to get a job driving? They do, in fact, require a 3 year MVR.

2. Have you ever worked in the financial industry? I do, and to get my license I had to undergo a background check that looked specifically for white collar types of criminal background.

Not to mention that many of these jobs (especially in any type of government agency whether federal, state, or local and many in the private sector) will require a criminal background check as well as a credit check. This argument is not valid.

Originally Posted by Kaiminani

No matter how pointless and even demeaning those policies are? Sorry dude, but that's pretty unamerican and inhuman too. The most creative and successful company I ever worked for had the following as the first rule in their HR guide - "1. We will not do something stupid just because it is written down."

I'm un-American and inhumane because I feel that if you want to work for a certain company you should follow their policies? I've got American for you, you are free to apply for the job. The employer is free to require any type of legal and constitutionally allowable test or check they wish. If you disagree then you are free to seek other employment. Freedom baby!! It doesn't get any more American than that.

Originally Posted by Kaiminani

Do you really think that my demonstrating just how trivial it is to circumvent drug-testing is "pretty out there?" Seriously? Did you skip "the emperor has no clothes" story when you were a kid?

How many folks do you think would bribe a facilities employee a couple of grand for a $30,000 a year job? That's where you lost me, your scenarios are unrealistic. As far as the emporer wears no clothes, I can only assume you mean the failed war on drugs and drug policy in this country. Again, I don't disagree (and just so you understand where I am coming from I was a habitual MJ user until a couple of years ago) but until that policy is changed it is what it is. And because of that people have choices (again with that freedom). You can choose to stay clean and work, you can choose to try and circumvent the system, or you can choose to stay home and get intoxicated. It's your call.

As an aside, I do find it quite hypocritical that one of the major forms of drug abuse today is prescription medicine yet fed.gov does nothing about it (likely because of big pharma) and as far as I know you will not be automatically disqualified for any employment with prescription drugs in your system.

[tazz]

Originally Posted by Kaiminani;10627770/

Sorry dude, can't use that excuse on me, I've been pretty much straightedge since I was a teenager and figured out just how destructive the war on some drugs was to our constitutional freedoms. Funny though that you would see what I wrote as paranoid - refer you too to the story about the emperor's clothes.

Perhaps you should consider applying for jobs where no drug test is requires. I suspect, with your gift of gab, you would make a great carny.