10-20-2014, 05:11 PM
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Could the Lehigh Valley ever get big enough to attract a major league sports team? I'm aware there are some minor league teams, but I'm talking MAJORS. or is it too close to NYC and Philly for that?
10-20-2014, 05:16 PM
Location: MMU->ABE->ATL->ASH
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No, To close to NYC & Philly and Not enough Population / Draw area.
10-20-2014, 05:51 PM
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But both the Iron Pigs and now the Phantoms are affiliated with their corresponding Philly teams, so our minor league teams are pretty "up there."
Check out the new PPL Center - it's awesome!
10-20-2014, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
gottaq
Could the Lehigh Valley ever get big enough to attract a major league sports team? I'm aware there are some minor league teams, but I'm talking MAJORS. or is it too close to NYC and Philly for that?
You might think that Lehigh Valley could never afford a 24,000 seat stadium, but PP&L Center in Allentown cost
$176 million with only 8000 seats it is much more expensive than the
$120 million t o build the soccer stadium in Chester PA with capacity 18,500 (Soccer) and 26,000 (Concerts). Both venues were given naming rights to PP&L.
PPL Park Information | Philadelphia Union
The bulk of the PA Latino population lives north of Philadelphia and not in Delaware County. Latinos are the strongest traditional fans of soccer. It would have probably made more sense to have built the
major league soccer stadium in the Valley, and a
minor league hockey stadium in Chester PA.
Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2013
3.4% Delaware County
4.7% Montgomery County
11.7% Northampton County
13.3% Philadelphia City
18.1% Berks County
20.7% Lehigh County
I can't resist raising this point again. The PP&L Park in Chester cost $6500 per soccer seat (less for concerts). That is pretty close to the norm for new venues (for example $6200 for venue for Hershey Bears). The PP&L Center in Allentown costs $22,000 per seat. That is the 4th highest sum in the history of the world except for Yankee Stadium, Barclay Center, and MetLife Stadium in Rutherford.
Last edited by PacoMartin; 10-20-2014 at 06:41 PM ..
10-21-2014, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
PacoMartin
You might think that Lehigh Valley could never afford a 24,000 seat stadium, but PP&L Center in Allentown cost
$176 million with only 8000 seats it is much more expensive than the
$120 million t o build the soccer stadium in Chester PA with capacity 18,500 (Soccer) and 26,000 (Concerts). Both venues were given naming rights to PP&L.
PPL Park Information | Philadelphia Union
The bulk of the PA Latino population lives north of Philadelphia and not in Delaware County. Latinos are the strongest traditional fans of soccer. It would have probably made more sense to have built the
major league soccer stadium in the Valley, and a
minor league hockey stadium in Chester PA.
Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2013
3.4% Delaware County
4.7% Montgomery County
11.7% Northampton County
13.3% Philadelphia City
18.1% Berks County
20.7% Lehigh County
I can't resist raising this point again.
The PP&L Park in Chester cost $6500 per soccer seat (less for concerts). That is pretty close to the norm for new venues (for example $6200 for venue for Hershey Bears). The PP&L Center in Allentown costs $22,000 per seat. That is the 4th highest sum in the history of the world except for Yankee Stadium, Barclay Center, and MetLife Stadium in Rutherford.
That's pretty stupefying! For Allentown's sake, I hope it does work, but sounds like that's an uphill road. I have heard from friends that the new venue in Allentown is really nice. One of our close friends went to two concerts there already and said it was a much better music venue than the Sands Casino one in Bethlehem. In fact, he said he would never go back to the one at the Sands. I don't really know many people that are big hockey fans, but most of my friends do like music and live concerts - maybe that will be the real moneymaker.
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10-21-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
toobusytoday
That's pretty stupefying! For Allentown's sake, I hope it does work, but sounds like that's an uphill road. I have heard from friends that the new venue in Allentown is really nice. One of our close friends went to two concerts there already and said it was a much better music venue than the Sands Casino one in Bethlehem. In fact, he said he would never go back to the one at the Sands. I don't really know many people that are big hockey fans, but most of my friends do like music and live concerts - maybe that will be the real moneymaker.
The first game was a sellout. Don't forget that the team already has a big following since they used to play in Philadelphia until their arena was torn down.
I'm not a hockey fan, either, but going to a game would be fun. I'm not a baseball fan and I enjoy Iron Pigs games.
Were any of those other areas built in the middle of a city like the PPL Center? They had to first purchase all the buildings they planned to take over, demolish, dig down, etc.
10-21-2014, 09:20 AM
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I think there are a lot of people that will go to an occasional game but not so many that want to pay $600 to $1200 for season tickets.
Season Tickets | Lehigh Valley Phantoms Interestingly enough, the cost per ticket is LESS than it is for the Iron Pigs, which are $720 - $1,080
Season Tickets | Lehigh Valley IronPigs Tickets
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10-21-2014, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
toobusytoday
I think there are a lot of people that will go to an occasional game but not so many that want to pay $600 to $1200 for season tickets.
Hershey Bears Season Tickets. are $551-$770 and includes valet parking. The Phantoms are $600-$880 (not counting executive seating) but you still have to pay to park.
The Phantoms are very expensive for a minor league team, but with the world's most expensive minor league venue, that is not surprising. The Iron Pigs Coca Cola Park cost $50-$55 million for 10,000 seats (or $5000 to $5500 per seat).
Yankee Stadium and Barclay Center are in the bounds of New York city, and they have some of the best public transportation options in the Americas. Barclay's center has 11 subway lines and several train lines of the Long Island Railroad. But while Yankee Stadium seats cost $30K per seat to build, even season ticket grandstand seats cost over a $1000. By the time you are getting to executive style corporate seating in NYC, you can sell season tickets for well over $20K a year. At one point the top seats were
$2500 per game.
But you get 38 games in minor league hockey (+2 preseason). That is twice what you get for Major League Soccer. And Major League tickets for any sport are much more expensive than the most expensive minor league tickets.
Philadelphia Union Season tickets 18 games
--------------
By all accounts the PP&L center in Allentown is fantastic place to see games and concerts. Essentially, the price of the venue doesn't matter. It is all being paid for by redirected state tax dollars. Even with this high cost, I am sure that Allentown will still show up in the black because of new business paying taxes being attracted to the city. But I doubt the State will make out since very little business will come from outside of Pennsylvania. But no one will be able to do the accounting that is above some spin.
A more appropriate outlay would have been $50-$60 million to build the hockey arena next to the Coca Cola Park (still within the city limits of Allentown). Something in the $8K to $9K per seat range (compared to $5K to $6K range for minor league baseball).
02-12-2015, 10:50 PM
Location: Villanova Pa.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
gottaq
Could the Lehigh Valley ever get big enough to attract a major league sports team? I'm aware there are some minor league teams, but I'm talking MAJORS. or is it too close to NYC and Philly for that?
Money talks. If you get a tycoon who has enough money and is on a mission to bring a professional team to the Lehigh Valley they can make it happen. They will need a big assist from local and state government of course.
Highly unlikely but not impossible.
02-13-2015, 05:54 AM
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
gottaq
Could the Lehigh Valley ever get big enough to attract a major league sports team? I'm aware there are some minor league teams, but I'm talking MAJORS. or is it too close to NYC and Philly for that?
The ABE area will never have a major league team in a major sport. It is very marginal size-wise for a team (though it isn't that much smaller than some current, "small market" major league sports markets), and more importantly it is too close to NYC and Philadelphia. Additionally, though "TV market areas" will become less important in the long-term, the region does not have its own TV market.
As a basis of comparison, Hartford is a considerably larger metropolitan area, is further from NYC and Boston than the Lehigh Valley is from NYC and Philadelphia, has its own TV market, and is in a state that doesn't contain either NYC or Boston, yet Hartford lost its only major league pro sports team nearly 20 years ago and is usually not considered a prime target for major league pro sports expansion.
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Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)