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Old 10-20-2014, 05:11 PM
 
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Could the Lehigh Valley ever get big enough to attract a major league sports team? I'm aware there are some minor league teams, but I'm talking MAJORS. or is it too close to NYC and Philly for that?
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:16 PM
 
Location: MMU->ABE->ATL->ASH
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No, To close to NYC & Philly and Not enough Population / Draw area.
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:51 PM
 
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But both the Iron Pigs and now the Phantoms are affiliated with their corresponding Philly teams, so our minor league teams are pretty "up there."

Check out the new PPL Center - it's awesome!
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaq View Post
Could the Lehigh Valley ever get big enough to attract a major league sports team? I'm aware there are some minor league teams, but I'm talking MAJORS. or is it too close to NYC and Philly for that?
You might think that Lehigh Valley could never afford a 24,000 seat stadium, but PP&L Center in Allentown cost $176 million with only 8000 seats it is much more expensive than the $120 million to build the soccer stadium in Chester PA with capacity 18,500 (Soccer) and 26,000 (Concerts). Both venues were given naming rights to PP&L.
PPL Park Information | Philadelphia Union

The bulk of the PA Latino population lives north of Philadelphia and not in Delaware County. Latinos are the strongest traditional fans of soccer. It would have probably made more sense to have built the major league soccer stadium in the Valley, and a minor league hockey stadium in Chester PA.

Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2013
3.4% Delaware County
4.7% Montgomery County
11.7% Northampton County
13.3% Philadelphia City
18.1% Berks County
20.7% Lehigh County

I can't resist raising this point again. The PP&L Park in Chester cost $6500 per soccer seat (less for concerts). That is pretty close to the norm for new venues (for example $6200 for venue for Hershey Bears). The PP&L Center in Allentown costs $22,000 per seat. That is the 4th highest sum in the history of the world except for Yankee Stadium, Barclay Center, and MetLife Stadium in Rutherford.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 10-20-2014 at 06:41 PM..
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
You might think that Lehigh Valley could never afford a 24,000 seat stadium, but PP&L Center in Allentown cost $176 million with only 8000 seats it is much more expensive than the $120 million to build the soccer stadium in Chester PA with capacity 18,500 (Soccer) and 26,000 (Concerts). Both venues were given naming rights to PP&L.
PPL Park Information | Philadelphia Union

The bulk of the PA Latino population lives north of Philadelphia and not in Delaware County. Latinos are the strongest traditional fans of soccer. It would have probably made more sense to have built the major league soccer stadium in the Valley, and a minor league hockey stadium in Chester PA.

Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2013
3.4% Delaware County
4.7% Montgomery County
11.7% Northampton County
13.3% Philadelphia City
18.1% Berks County
20.7% Lehigh County

I can't resist raising this point again. The PP&L Park in Chester cost $6500 per soccer seat (less for concerts). That is pretty close to the norm for new venues (for example $6200 for venue for Hershey Bears). The PP&L Center in Allentown costs $22,000 per seat. That is the 4th highest sum in the history of the world except for Yankee Stadium, Barclay Center, and MetLife Stadium in Rutherford.
That's pretty stupefying! For Allentown's sake, I hope it does work, but sounds like that's an uphill road. I have heard from friends that the new venue in Allentown is really nice. One of our close friends went to two concerts there already and said it was a much better music venue than the Sands Casino one in Bethlehem. In fact, he said he would never go back to the one at the Sands. I don't really know many people that are big hockey fans, but most of my friends do like music and live concerts - maybe that will be the real moneymaker.
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
That's pretty stupefying! For Allentown's sake, I hope it does work, but sounds like that's an uphill road. I have heard from friends that the new venue in Allentown is really nice. One of our close friends went to two concerts there already and said it was a much better music venue than the Sands Casino one in Bethlehem. In fact, he said he would never go back to the one at the Sands. I don't really know many people that are big hockey fans, but most of my friends do like music and live concerts - maybe that will be the real moneymaker.
The first game was a sellout. Don't forget that the team already has a big following since they used to play in Philadelphia until their arena was torn down.

I'm not a hockey fan, either, but going to a game would be fun. I'm not a baseball fan and I enjoy Iron Pigs games.

Were any of those other areas built in the middle of a city like the PPL Center? They had to first purchase all the buildings they planned to take over, demolish, dig down, etc.
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:20 AM
 
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I think there are a lot of people that will go to an occasional game but not so many that want to pay $600 to $1200 for season tickets. Season Tickets | Lehigh Valley Phantoms Interestingly enough, the cost per ticket is LESS than it is for the Iron Pigs, which are $720 - $1,080 Season Tickets | Lehigh Valley IronPigs Tickets
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
I think there are a lot of people that will go to an occasional game but not so many that want to pay $600 to $1200 for season tickets.
Hershey Bears Season Tickets. are $551-$770 and includes valet parking. The Phantoms are $600-$880 (not counting executive seating) but you still have to pay to park.

The Phantoms are very expensive for a minor league team, but with the world's most expensive minor league venue, that is not surprising. The Iron Pigs Coca Cola Park cost $50-$55 million for 10,000 seats (or $5000 to $5500 per seat).

Yankee Stadium and Barclay Center are in the bounds of New York city, and they have some of the best public transportation options in the Americas. Barclay's center has 11 subway lines and several train lines of the Long Island Railroad. But while Yankee Stadium seats cost $30K per seat to build, even season ticket grandstand seats cost over a $1000. By the time you are getting to executive style corporate seating in NYC, you can sell season tickets for well over $20K a year. At one point the top seats were $2500 per game.


But you get 38 games in minor league hockey (+2 preseason). That is twice what you get for Major League Soccer. And Major League tickets for any sport are much more expensive than the most expensive minor league tickets.

Philadelphia Union Season tickets 18 games

--------------
By all accounts the PP&L center in Allentown is fantastic place to see games and concerts. Essentially, the price of the venue doesn't matter. It is all being paid for by redirected state tax dollars. Even with this high cost, I am sure that Allentown will still show up in the black because of new business paying taxes being attracted to the city. But I doubt the State will make out since very little business will come from outside of Pennsylvania. But no one will be able to do the accounting that is above some spin.

A more appropriate outlay would have been $50-$60 million to build the hockey arena next to the Coca Cola Park (still within the city limits of Allentown). Something in the $8K to $9K per seat range (compared to $5K to $6K range for minor league baseball).
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,927 posts, read 14,215,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaq View Post
Could the Lehigh Valley ever get big enough to attract a major league sports team? I'm aware there are some minor league teams, but I'm talking MAJORS. or is it too close to NYC and Philly for that?
Money talks. If you get a tycoon who has enough money and is on a mission to bring a professional team to the Lehigh Valley they can make it happen. They will need a big assist from local and state government of course.

Highly unlikely but not impossible.
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Old 02-13-2015, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaq View Post
Could the Lehigh Valley ever get big enough to attract a major league sports team? I'm aware there are some minor league teams, but I'm talking MAJORS. or is it too close to NYC and Philly for that?
The ABE area will never have a major league team in a major sport. It is very marginal size-wise for a team (though it isn't that much smaller than some current, "small market" major league sports markets), and more importantly it is too close to NYC and Philadelphia. Additionally, though "TV market areas" will become less important in the long-term, the region does not have its own TV market.

As a basis of comparison, Hartford is a considerably larger metropolitan area, is further from NYC and Boston than the Lehigh Valley is from NYC and Philadelphia, has its own TV market, and is in a state that doesn't contain either NYC or Boston, yet Hartford lost its only major league pro sports team nearly 20 years ago and is usually not considered a prime target for major league pro sports expansion.
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