Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Because there are no areas of suburbs that don't have a Mass Transit System? There are no areas of developement that don't have a train or bus run through them? MTA does one thing on a regular basis: it makes sure those who work in the city can take the train instead of driving. If I don't take the train, I shouldn't be supporting the train.
Its not just the train, its buses as well (not saying that you use them)
The population density of the region is only as dense as it is because of mass transit. I'm only saying if it werent here, LI and NYC wouldnt be as dense as it is (for better or worse) Think of the roads if the Subways and Buses and LIRR never existed.
The if I dont use it I shouldnt be supporting it argument can and is used for every public service. Schools, transit, parks, welfare etc.
Its not just the train, its buses as well (not saying that you use them)
The population density of the region is only as dense as it is because of mass transit. I'm only saying if it werent here, LI and NYC wouldnt be as dense as it is (for better or worse) Think of the roads if the Subways and Buses and LIRR never existed.
The if I dont use it I shouldnt be supporting it argument can and is used for every public service. Schools, transit, parks, welfare etc.
Population density has nothing to do with the MTA. Most people on LI don't even use the trains or buses. But even still, they are forced to pay for them.
Population density has nothing to do with the MTA. Most people on LI don't even use the trains or buses. But even still, they are forced to pay for them.
Not specifically the MTA, but population density and viability of a region are directly related to mass transit avaiable.
06-16-2010, 09:23 PM
grant516
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckthedog
Its not just the train, its buses as well (not saying that you use them)
The population density of the region is only as dense as it is because of mass transit. I'm only saying if it werent here, LI and NYC wouldnt be as dense as it is (for better or worse) Think of the roads if the Subways and Buses and LIRR never existed.
The if I dont use it I shouldnt be supporting it argument can and is used for every public service. Schools, transit, parks, welfare etc.
My argument is that the MTA's most lucrative form of profit is from private automobiles driving over bridges that were given to them as a result of a financial disaster the NYCT themselves created.
If all automobile traffic in the downstate region ceased, once again the MTA would go bankrupt.
The payroll tax being equal in Manhattan as it is in Dutchess or Suffolk county is ridiculous. Ontop of that the payroll tax was enacted to avoid a series of LI cuts, MOST of which were made anyway.
Other enactments with the payroll tax included higher prices for DL's & Rent-a-Cars. How is that really supporting faith in public transit?
Since freelancers and indy business are paying for the payroll tax, it should have been a general public vote- and it would have never passed, since the 4 counties that use it are outnumbered by the 11 counties paying for it.
The MTA suffers a vorpal wound that will be patched up amongst a giant pile of mess long after I'm gone.
train provides the way for the wall st. broker to get to work from his long island home and make $500k
he spends the $500k on maintaining and improving his long island house/yard and buying stuff at sh1t a$$ businesses in his town
people who maintain his house/yard and sh1t a$$ business owners benefit
if you don't think the lirr benefits all of long island, you're a fool... move to kansas please
edit: salary figures in the above example were made up... please insert job classification/salary of your choice
Sweet, buying me a Porsche will help me move to my job so I can make money so I can spend money. If you don't buy me a Porsche your a moron.
See, doesn't work so well. If the LIRR doesn't work without taxing people who don't use it, it should be sold off. Private citizens shouldn't be subsidizing other peoples commute. There are plenty of examples of non-MTA cities who don't require subsidization.
If the LIRR doesn't work without taxing people who don't use it, it should be sold off. Private citizens shouldn't be subsidizing other peoples commute. There are plenty of examples of non-MTA cities who don't require subsidization.
Mass transit will likely never pay for itself. We subsidize it via taxes because it provides massive benefits to all people, even those who do not use it. Businesses rely on mass transit for their non-driving employees to get to work. Shops rely on mass transit for their non-driving customers to get to their stores. Schools rely on mass transit for their non-driving students to attend classes. All of us benefit from not having hundreds of thousands of additional automobiles tearing up the roads, causing traffic and polluting the atmosphere. All of us benefit from people utilizing mass transit to contribute to the economy, to educate themselves and to work rather than being stuck at home.
Now, there are plenty of arguments for reforming the MTA, eliminating waste and fraud, etc. before raising fares or implementing further taxes, but that does not justify dismantling the system.
America has been on a path of unsustainable urban sprawl for too long, a system that has resulted in an unprecedented waste of natural resources and which relies upon illegal immigrant labor to survive. Mass transit, such that we have, sets the NY region apart from metropolitan areas across the nation that are struggling in part because they lack modern infrastructure such as mass transit.
Mass transit will likely never pay for itself. We subsidize it via taxes because it provides massive benefits to all people, even those who do not use it. Businesses rely on mass transit for their non-driving employees to get to work. Shops rely on mass transit for their non-driving customers to get to their stores. Schools rely on mass transit for their non-driving students to attend classes. All of us benefit from not having hundreds of thousands of additional automobiles tearing up the roads, causing traffic and polluting the atmosphere. All of us benefit from people utilizing mass transit to contribute to the economy, to educate themselves and to work rather than being stuck at home.
Now, there are plenty of arguments for reforming the MTA, eliminating waste and fraud, etc. before raising fares or implementing further taxes, but that does not justify dismantling the system.
America has been on a path of unsustainable urban sprawl for too long, a system that has resulted in an unprecedented waste of natural resources and which relies upon illegal immigrant labor to survive. Mass transit, such that we have, sets the NY region apart from metropolitan areas across the nation that are struggling in part because they lack modern infrastructure such as mass transit.
So basically you are admitting to support something that will not pay for itself and relies on subsidization from non-users to work. I just want to clear that up.
NYC relies on the MTA, not the mom and pop shops, not the local library, and not the business' on Long Island. The vast majority of traffic is going into the city in the morning and coming back from the city at night.
Schools aren't really using it for any real percentage of students. I'd probably be willing to say that less then 2% of Stony Brooks students actually use the train regularly to commute, unless you mean heading home to the city on Friday and returning on Sunday.
Yes, the train stops a driving commute, but people USING the damn thing should be PAYING for it. I've used the LIRR maybe once in 5 years. Like I said, might as well have everyone using the train subsidize my Porsche.
Without LIRR, my wife and I wouldn't have even bothered looking on LI for our house, never mind that we actually bought a home in Lynbrook specifically because of the transportation options it afforded us. If you want to fight the unfortunately named "brain-drain" this is how you do it. Couple that with the general drop in children on the island (per today's Newsday) and you've got a real issue on the horizon.
When I tell my 20- and 30-something coworkers how great my commute is, and that I'm very comfortable with the tradeoff in having given up the convenience of the subway for the ability to get extra work done on the train, it opens them to new options. WiFi only adds to that equation in favor of Island living, and the more of those 20- and 30-somethings that buy into it the greater the demand becomes for the area as a whole.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
