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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
The Westboro Church is NOT peaceably assembling. They are claiming that God is killing their sons overseas because our government is tolerant of gays! The vitriolic rhetoric they spew is hate speech; couple that with the intrusive behavior at one of the most terrible time's in the life of a parent -- burying a child who sacrificed his life for our country -- and it borders on terrorism.
Here's an interview with the father of one soldier who was killed.
I hope you are never placed in the position of these military families who are burying their sons. A funeral, no matter where held, is a time for mourning and supporting family and friends in their time of grief. It is NOT a place for a radical group of ANY sort to further their agenda.
well said... I would wager that the OP is a partisan to the group. This is Long Island after all.
Right to lifers are protesting BEFORE an action takes place, enabling the pregnant person a chance to change their mind.
Westboro should be protesting BEFORE young men enlist, enabling a potential recruit to chance to change his/her mind.
I am sorry; despite my pro choice view, I can't see RTL's as hate groups. They might be extreme (i.e. unfurling banners of aborted fetuses) but their basis is respecting life which is a gift from God. The Westboro Church group sees military deaths as punishment from God -- aka smiting personnel killed in action.
The fact that these young men and women, many of whom are religious, volunteer to serve their country, speaks more highly of them than it does of the self promoting Westboro church zealots -- many of whom are related.
Yeah I guess I see what you mean -- the way I see it they are both using extreme measures to get their point across while standing outside their targeted audience.
... this is a pretty conflicting statement. You're not supporting legislature that tinkers with protesting, but you think that a piece of legislature that supports tinkering with protesting is a good thing?!
No offense to anyone on here, it's a sticky situation- but Freedom of Speech & Assembly is either an all or none type of situation.
It's not cool what those people are doing, but it's a right they have under the constitution of the united states.
Would Steve Levy ban picket lines for wronged employees? They're bad for business you know.
Conflicting? Yes, I could agree that I'm contradicting myself with the statement, but I think mongoose65 and OhBeeHave pretty much share my feelings and have stated it better than I did. Freedom of speech and assembly is not really an all or nothing proposition in practical application.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose65
Sorry, it's not a "right to protest" or "right to assemble" issue any more than shouting FIRE in a crowded theater is a "free speech" issue. This law allows the cops to haul away the dumbass protesters before a family member kills one of them thus compounding the tragedy. Again, sad that common decency needs to be litgated but it makes sense in this case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
The Westboro Church is NOT peaceably assembling. They are claiming that God is killing their sons overseas because our government is tolerant of gays! The vitriolic rhetoric they spew is hate speech; couple that with the intrusive behavior at one of the most terrible time's in the life of a parent -- burying a child who sacrificed his life for our country -- and it borders on terrorism.
07-07-2010, 04:38 PM
grant516
n/a posts
Vuvuzelas blown during fallen Soccer Comrades Funeral! Family cannot possibly hear last rites.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
The Westboro Church is NOT peaceably assembling. They are claiming that God is killing their sons overseas because our government is tolerant of gays! The vitriolic rhetoric they spew is hate speech; couple that with the intrusive behavior at one of the most terrible time's in the life of a parent -- burying a child who sacrificed his life for our country -- and it borders on terrorism.
Listen I'm not defending these nut jobs, but your rhetoric is a bit ridiculous. To compare a bunch of idiots yelling out stupid statements to terrorism is about as stupid as the Westboro church congregation. If these pathetic excuses for human life yell something that's considered hate speech, harassing or threatening, let the police arrest them. If they are making stupid, inappropriate comments that we don't agree with, that's their right. If they are not assembling peaceably, they should be arrested. Creating a new law is ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
As for this being a new law -- this goes back a few years:
Ok, I know the internet is the land of explain like you're talking to a 5 year old, but new law = law that wasn't in existence in Suffolk County. Did I really need to explain that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
I hope you are never placed in the position of these military families who are burying their sons. A funeral, no matter where held, is a time for mourning and supporting family and friends in their time of grief. It is NOT a place for a radical group of ANY sort to further their agenda.
I hope I never am either, but emotional pleas are never a good basis for law and policy.
You would wager and you'd lose your shirt. Try reading the whole thread. Those who would view this law as a good thing are the type who probably lack critical reasoning and reading comprehension skills. Some of you even show it in your posts. Well done.
So those that disagree with you on this "lack critical reasoning and reading comprehension skills"? Uh, ok, count me in that group.
I don't fear the banning of this type of protest as the first step in taking more of our rights away. These are the most private of moments and keeping these nuts far away from them is a good idea. That fact that we need to put a law on the books to do so is sad enough on its own.
Nothing wrong with this law. It protects the idiot protesters from the grieving family who have every right to beat the living crap out of the freak jackoffs who would protest at the funeral of a soldier (or anyone for that matter). Sadly, we have to legislate common decency but there is always a bigger idiot out there.
Love this. ^^^
I don't like Steve Levy, but I agree with him on this.
Listen I'm not defending these nut jobs, but your rhetoric is a bit ridiculous. To compare a bunch of idiots yelling out stupid statements to terrorism is about as stupid as the Westboro church congregation. If these pathetic excuses for human life yell something that's considered hate speech, harassing or threatening, let the police arrest them. If they are making stupid, inappropriate comments that we don't agree with, that's their right. If they are not assembling peaceably, they should be arrested. Creating a new law is ridiculous.
Ok, I know the internet is the land of explain like you're talking to a 5 year old, but new law = law that wasn't in existence in Suffolk County. Did I really need to explain that?
I hope I never am either, but emotional pleas are never a good basis for law and policy.
Did you take 5 minutes of your time to watch/listen to the news report of the family who had the Westboro Baptist Church scream at them that their son deserves to be dead? See the pamphlet and releases stating "Thank God for IEDs"?
Terrorism Research - What is Terrorism? "Terrorism is not new, and even though it has been used since the beginning of recorded history it can be relatively hard to define. Terrorism has been described variously as both a tactic and strategy; a crime and a holy duty; a justified reaction to oppression and an inexcusable abomination. Obviously, a lot depends on whose point of view is being represented."
The FBI uses this: "Terrorism is the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."
WBC does fall within these boundaries. They are making a mockery of a fallen soldier's service, and blaming that death as God's retribution for the US becoming a nation of Sodomites. (Their terminology.) They want the US to turn our back on gay and lesbian individuals; only then will they stop protesting at military funerals. They don't show up at every funeral, either, adding to the element of surprise if or when they do surface. Families of the fallen have to fear having their loved one's funeral turned into a three ring circus, with preposterous accusations and cruel insinuations hurled at them by a bunch of misguided zealots.
As previously written, law was in place FEDERALLY a few years ago. Suffolk's law is after the fact, and federal law should have been followed in the absence of a local law. Did I have to explain that?
I am not the one said you were defending the WBC.
What happens if, as you suggest, the police move to haul away the protesters and a larger fracas ensues? The family of the deceased not only has to deal with the WBC, but a potential riot and their child's funeral being the lead off on every news program.
Common sense should not have to be legislated, nor should it be suspended because someone feels the need to exercise Freedom of Speech in a most inappropriate setting. You can bet your bottom dollar that if a gay group protested at one of their funerals, it would land right in the hands of the ACLU.
Did you take 5 minutes of your time to watch/listen to the news report of the family who had the Westboro Baptist Church scream at them that their son deserves to be dead? See the pamphlet and releases stating "Thank God for IEDs"?
Terrorism Research - What is Terrorism? "Terrorism is not new, and even though it has been used since the beginning of recorded history it can be relatively hard to define. Terrorism has been described variously as both a tactic and strategy; a crime and a holy duty; a justified reaction to oppression and an inexcusable abomination. Obviously, a lot depends on whose point of view is being represented."
The FBI uses this: "Terrorism is the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."
WBC does fall within these boundaries. They are making a mockery of a fallen soldier's service, and blaming that death as God's retribution for the US becoming a nation of Sodomites. (Their terminology.) They want the US to turn our back on gay and lesbian individuals; only then will they stop protesting at military funerals. They don't show up at every funeral, either, adding to the element of surprise if or when they do surface. Families of the fallen have to fear having their loved one's funeral turned into a three ring circus, with preposterous accusations and cruel insinuations hurled at them by a bunch of misguided zealots.
As previously written, law was in place FEDERALLY a few years ago. Suffolk's law is after the fact, and federal law should have been followed in the absence of a local law. Did I have to explain that?
I am not the one said you were defending the WBC.
What happens if, as you suggest, the police move to haul away the protesters and a larger fracas ensues? The family of the deceased not only has to deal with the WBC, but a potential riot and their child's funeral being the lead off on every news program.
Common sense should not have to be legislated, nor should it be suspended because someone feels the need to exercise Freedom of Speech in a most inappropriate setting. You can bet your bottom dollar that if a gay group protested at one of their funerals, it would land right in the hands of the ACLU.
WBC falls into the definition of the FBI's definition of terrorism? If they are violent that is an arrestable offense. If they are harassing, the police should arrest them. Why haven't the police done anything?
The law, from what I read, held no ground in Suffolk County, hence the need for the new law. Either way, a new law for Suffolk County was signed this week. Do you understand yet?
Finally, your example is a bad one. A law on the books won't necessarily stop these clowns and the risk of a "fracas" and potential risk is as likely.
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