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Yeah but taxes have gone up 20% the last 9 years (property tax portion by 25+%, sales tax portion 20+%). Suozzi's 2002 budget came in at $2.2 Billion. We are now 9 years later at $2.64 Billion, which means the county is getting 20% more revenue from somewhere (us). So aggregate county revenue, ie- taxes, fees, fines, surcharges have increased 20%, while the spending exceeded that. Isn't that enough of a raise in cost of living imposed on Nassau County residents considering the increase in school taxes as well?
I think we're already overpaying for what the county is providing to us in services.
The 2002 budget was not Suozzi's budget. It was the last budget under Tom Gullotta, and we faced a major deficit. Keep in mind when Suozzi was elected in November of 01 and took over in Jan of 02, the 02 budget was already passed.
The 2002 budget was not Suozzi's budget. It was the last budget under Tom Gullotta, and we faced a major deficit. Keep in mind when Suozzi was elected in November of 01 and took over in Jan of 02, the 02 budget was already passed.
I misspoke, Suozzi devised that budget in 2002 (so since 2003, county revenues have increased from 2.2B to 2.64B). That's a 20% increase in 8 years. That is right about inline with the CPI - inflation. So the COL here went up 20%, whether it be through nickel & dime fees like coliseum ticket surcharges, fine increases, parking fee increases and increased sales tax revenue, red-light ticket program, increased property taxes; essentially 20-25% higher taxes if you live in the county.
What I'm saying is, property taxes have increased 25% in 8 years and COL increased about the same 20-25%, so our taxes are going up a lot even though the county hasn't raised taxes, raising fees and other stuff is still a tax hike. It's not a revenue problem, it seems like it's an over-spending problem.
side note- with inflation coming back since last year and follow through this year, I really believe the budget for 2011 is balanced (barring any major shocks to the economy). I think Nifa should butt out TBH and give the 2011 budget a chance.
I misspoke, Suozzi devised that budget in 2002 (so since 2003, county revenues have increased from 2.2B to 2.64B). That's a 20% increase in 8 years. That is right about inline with the CPI - inflation. So the COL here went up 20%, whether it be through nickel & dime fees like coliseum ticket surcharges, fine increases, parking fee increases and increased sales tax revenue, red-light ticket program, increased property taxes; essentially 20-25% higher taxes if you live in the county.
What I'm saying is, property taxes have increased 25% in 8 years and COL increased about the same 20-25%, so our taxes are going up a lot even though the county hasn't raised taxes, raising fees and other stuff is still a tax hike. It's not a revenue problem, it seems like it's an over-spending problem.
side note- with inflation coming back since last year and follow through this year, I really believe the budget for 2011 is balanced (barring any major shocks to the economy). I think Nifa should butt out TBH and give the 2011 budget a chance.
Keep in mind sales tax revenues have declined in recent years, so something needs to be done to make up that cost. Sales Tax revenue in 2009 was at the lowest level since 2004, and down about $60 million from 2007. Overall tax revenue in 2009 was down $32 million from 2007, and at its lowest point since 2005. So we do have an issue as far as tax revenue that needs to be addressed.
NIFA was set up by Pataki to get involved if we were facing a 1% deficit or if a 1% deficit or more was imminent. Thats the purpose of NIFA, and I don't see how this budget is remotely balanced based off the proposals by Mangano. The math just doesn't work.
He is right that the property tax revenue hasn't really increased.
Are you are implying that because property tax revenue hasn't increased, that property owners haven't seen an increase?, therefore we need to raise property taxes? That is wrong if you think that. Suozzi jacked them up almost 20% in 2003 and another 4% 5 years later. Property taxes have gone up more than you think (in the 25%-35% range for most of us) far surpassing the CPI. We have ~3% fewer households in Nassau County (447k to 435k) and I'm sure the same % of businesses have left the county as well. So the ones left here are having to pay for the residents and businesses that are leaving.
I wonder why they're leaving
Also on sales tax revenue. Right, it is decreasing and flat-lined because the taxpayer base is struggling the last 4 years trying to pay these sky-high taxes in a stagnant economy. Meanwhile, the county continues the excessive spending like it's 2005 with county workers getting their consistent 3-4% raises every year along with benefits far exceeding the CPI as well. So your answer to that is to further add fuel to the fire and soak homeowners some more to solve this problem? Instead of cutting back on the never ending spending spree?
Man, if there was ever a study done on "does raising taxes really work?", I think we have a perfect real life answer to that and it's:
A- NO, Look at Long Island.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb11111
8 years without a tax increase?? Where are you living? The assessment on your house hasn't increased in 8 yrs? PDC, you're telling us you paid the same or less school or general taxes for the last 8 years? Nonsense.
And why is the answer to raise taxes? Why not cut costs? For goodness sake, hasn't Obamanomics taught you that doesn't work? Hasn't the mess we're in taught you that more spending and borrowing only without cutting will not get us anywhere?
you are 100% correct. I knew something didn't seem right with those figures. Suozzi raised them 19.4% in 2003 and 3.9% in 09. I thought it was only 25% but it's really A LOT more than that because there are fewer households and businesses having to pay for the increase. It's closer to 30-40% for most people.
Even the budget is showing an increase in revenue $2.2B to 2.64B in the last 8 yrs, surpassing the CPI and the steamroller spending spree showing no signs of slowing. And then people say our property taxes have not gone up so we need to raise them and chase more households & businesses off the island further exacerbating the problems on LI.
Can you point me to data that substantiates your claim that Nassau County taxes haven't increased? Are you saying that the tax as a percentage hasn't increased or the property tax revenue hasn't increased?
Read the post carefully. Property taxes under Gulotta didn't increase for several years. Suozzi raised them substantially (20% in his first year in office.)
8 years without a tax increase?? Where are you living? The assessment on your house hasn't increased in 8 yrs? PDC, you're telling us you paid the same or less school or general taxes for the last 8 years? Nonsense.
And why is the answer to raise taxes? Why not cut costs? For goodness sake, hasn't Obamanomics taught you that doesn't work? Hasn't the mess we're in taught you that more spending and borrowing only without cutting will not get us anywhere?
Turn down the drama. Read the post carefully. We're talking about Nassau County property taxes not increasing under Gulotta. (Which is what caused him so many financial headaches.) School taxes, as we all know, have nothing to do with county taxes.
And again, read what I wrote carefully. Cutting expenses is critical, but it won't be enough. While the popular war cry is to cut everything, there is a point at which no more cutting can be done ... and budget shortfalls will still exist. At that point, there is a need to raise revenues ... including taxes, if necessary. Government still has to function, still has to deliver the services that are mandated and expected by its citizens.
Yeah but taxes have gone up 20% the last 9 years (property tax portion by 25+%, sales tax portion 20+%). Suozzi's 2002 budget came in at $2.2 Billion. We are now 9 years later at $2.64 Billion, which means the county is getting 20% more revenue from somewhere (us). So aggregate county revenue, ie- taxes, fees, fines, surcharges have increased 20%, while the spending exceeded that. Isn't that enough of a raise in cost of living imposed on Nassau County residents considering the increase in school taxes as well?
I think we're already overpaying for what the county is providing to us in services.
What's your point? You're simply repeating what I said. 20% increase over 9 years amounts to a bit over 2% a year ... roughly in line with inflation. Those are reasonable tax increases. If they're not enough to keep pace with spending, then spending must be cut. My contention all along is that you can't cut your way out of the financial crisis. You can't go for years without tax increases and expect to maintain the same level of services. There has to be a combined effort to both decrease spending and increase revenue.
Turn down the drama. Read the post carefully. We're talking about Nassau County property taxes not increasing under Gulotta. (Which is what caused him so many financial headaches.) School taxes, as we all know, have nothing to do with county taxes.
And again, read what I wrote carefully. Cutting expenses is critical, but it won't be enough. While the popular war cry is to cut everything, there is a point at which no more cutting can be done ... and budget shortfalls will still exist. At that point, there is a need to raise revenues ... including taxes, if necessary. Government still has to function, still has to deliver the services that are mandated and expected by its citizens.
I would tend to agree with you, however we pay some of the highest taxes in the nation, and as such we should receive services on par with that. With any system, if its broken, you have to fix it.. Unfortunately we have been band-aided too many times, and as we all know, that small cut has turned into sepsis.
Its not the curent fiscal situation that scares me.. Its where we will be in 5-10 years... I do want to live here, but I dont want to be forced to sell my home because of uncontrollable taxes..... These are real dollars here that you cannot dismiss.. we are no longer talking about the $100 increases.... My tax bill went up $400 last year
Are you are implying that because property tax revenue hasn't increased, that property owners haven't seen an increase?, therefore we need to raise property taxes? That is wrong if you think that. Suozzi jacked them up almost 20% in 2003 and another 4% 5 years later. Property taxes have gone up more than you think (in the 25%-35% range for most of us) far surpassing the CPI. We have ~3% fewer households in Nassau County (447k to 435k) and I'm sure the same % of businesses have left the county as well. So the ones left here are having to pay for the residents and businesses that are leaving.
I wonder why they're leaving
Also on sales tax revenue. Right, it is decreasing and flat-lined because the taxpayer base is struggling the last 4 years trying to pay these sky-high taxes in a stagnant economy. Meanwhile, the county continues the excessive spending like it's 2005 with county workers getting their consistent 3-4% raises every year along with benefits far exceeding the CPI as well. So your answer to that is to further add fuel to the fire and soak homeowners some more to solve this problem? Instead of cutting back on the never ending spending spree?
Man, if there was ever a study done on "does raising taxes really work?", I think we have a perfect real life answer to that and it's:
A- NO, Look at Long Island.
you are 100% correct. I knew something didn't seem right with those figures. Suozzi raised them 19.4% in 2003 and 3.9% in 09. I thought it was only 25% but it's really A LOT more than that because there are fewer households and businesses having to pay for the increase. It's closer to 30-40% for most people.
Even the budget is showing an increase in revenue $2.2B to 2.64B in the last 8 yrs, surpassing the CPI and the steamroller spending spree showing no signs of slowing. And then people say our property taxes have not gone up so we need to raise them and chase more households & businesses off the island further exacerbating the problems on LI.
Like a snake eating its own tail...
Saying 30-40% you are simply making up numbers. Suozzi did push through a large increase his first year in office. That was to get the budget back in line after the Gullota disaster. Over the last seven years county taxes have increased by 3.9%. You can't simply not raise taxes ever. The Gullota administration and the deficits of the late 90's to early 2000's, the junk bond status, etc is proof of that. The 19% increase in 2003 was in order to get the budget back in line. If you go through long periods of never increasing taxes the end result is going to be the exact same problems that led us to the large increase that was needed in 2003. The best bet is to have those small 3-4% or so increases every few years.
Of course we also need to cut spending, but cutting spending alone is not going to solve the problems. A municipality the size of Nassau is not going to be able to survive financially by never raising taxes. Tom Gullota is proof of that.
I would tend to agree with you, however we pay some of the highest taxes in the nation, and as such we should receive services on par with that. With any system, if its broken, you have to fix it.. Unfortunately we have been band-aided too many times, and as we all know, that small cut has turned into sepsis.
Its not the curent fiscal situation that scares me.. Its where we will be in 5-10 years... I do want to live here, but I dont want to be forced to sell my home because of uncontrollable taxes..... These are real dollars here that you cannot dismiss.. we are no longer talking about the $100 increases.... My tax bill went up $400 last year
It depends on the Municipality. As far as the County goes we are generally talking about $50 to $60 or so increases. However, other municipalities are raising taxes as well (by FAR more than what some have proposed by the county) that being the school taxes as well as some of the Town Taxes (especially Oyster Bay and Hempstead)
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