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How can you factor the quality of parenting when measuring the quality of a school district?
You can't until you actually experience the parents and the kids. So, you have to use stats to try to figure out first and foremost whether the kids in the school care about education, based mainly on how they perform.
Ultimately, won't the parenting be a larger factor to a child's education than statistics? And if so, doesn't that also make minor statistical differences fairly meaningless?
I'm not trying to be a wise-ass, I just think there is too much over analysis of the statistics. I'm sure we've all heard the phrase "paralysis by analysis"...
Granted, a school with a 50% graduation rate has a problem, but is there really a big difference between a school with an 89% or a 95% graduation rate? Heck that could be as few as 10 or 20 kids, and to me that is more telling of the value placed on education by parents than of the schools.
How many times on this forum do you see 6 pages debating which school is "better" when few, if any, of the people debating have ever put a foot into the school they are discussing?
I guess my "bottom line" is that stats really break schools into 3 categories - elite, good, and bad....after that people need to rely on their own observations and interactions. In other words go see it for yourself and don't rely blindly on statistics.
Ultimately, won't the parenting be a larger factor to a child's education than statistics? And if so, doesn't that also make minor statistical differences fairly meaningless?
I'm not trying to be a wise-ass, I just think there is too much over analysis of the statistics. I'm sure we've all heard the phrase "paralysis by analysis"...
Granted, a school with a 50% graduation rate has a problem, but is there really a big difference between a school with an 89% or a 95% graduation rate? Heck that could be as few as 10 or 20 kids, and to me that is more telling of the value placed on education by parents than of the schools.
How many times on this forum do you see 6 pages debating which school is "better" when few, if any, of the people debating have ever put a foot into the school they are discussing?
I guess my "bottom line" is that stats really break schools into 3 categories - elite, good, and bad....after that people need to rely on their own observations and interactions. In other words go see it for yourself and don't rely blindly on statistics.
It's obvious to me that why parenting part is not part of the discussion. People aren't asking you how great their parenting is, they're asking what the best school districts are. Of course Parenting is more important than the schools teachers and programs, but that isn't the question being asked, so it's not relevant.
The kids that your children associate with every day when they walk out your front door have a major effect on how they view education. If they are in a school where performing well is looked down on by other kids, do you really want that? Of course a strong willed kid with good parenting will overcome that..but what about if your kids isn't perfect and is on the edge?
Maybe being around a bunch of kids to whom going to college is a priority vs a bunch of knuckleheads makes a big enough difference to put them on the right course.
Of course there are many variables with each individual person. It's doesn't negate the debate over what schools are better. An average is just that..an average..that you can use to make your own judgement about the schools. If 5% difference in graduation rate doesn't mean anything to you, then that's your choice that you are free to make.
Telling other people they are wasting their time worrying about it..well..that's your opinion. Not every kid is perfect and why put them in a less advantageous position if you don't have to, because you want 500 sq feet more house for the same money.
I remember my own upbringing in a very "middle class" Suffolk school district. The really smart kids took major heat for it, especially during middle school. In that district, my perception was that if you were a football player or your dad owned the local pizza parlor, that was more respected than being in the top 10% of your class. Of course there is always some of that in every school, but again, it is a question of DEGREE.
I remember the validictorian at my school took his revenge on the bully dirtbags and jocks when he gave his commencement speech, about how much hell he had been put through in middle school by certain segments of the population.
It's obvious to me that why parenting part is not part of the discussion. People aren't asking you how great their parenting is, they're asking what the best school districts are. Of course Parenting is more important than the schools teachers and programs, but that isn't the question being asked, so it's not relevant.
The kids that your children associate with every day when they walk out your front door have a major effect on how they view education. If they are in a school where performing well is looked down on by other kids, do you really want that? Of course a strong willed kid with good parenting will overcome that..but what about if your kids isn't perfect and is on the edge?
Maybe being around a bunch of kids to whom going to college is a priority vs a bunch of knuckleheads makes a big enough difference to put them on the right course.
Of course there are many variables with each individual person. It's doesn't negate the debate over what schools are better. An average is just that..an average..that you can use to make your own judgement about the schools. If 5% difference in graduation rate doesn't mean anything to you, then that's your choice that you are free to make.
Telling other people they are wasting their time worrying about it..well..that's your opinion. Not every kid is perfect and why put them in a less advantageous position if you don't have to, because you want 500 sq feet more house for the same money.
I remember my own upbringing in a very "middle class" Suffolk school district. The really smart kids took major heat for it, especially during middle school. In that district, my perception was that if you were a football player or your dad owned the local pizza parlor, that was more respected than being in the top 10% of your class. Of course there is always some of that in every school, but again, it is a question of DEGREE.
I remember the validictorian at my school took his revenge on the bully dirtbags and jocks when he gave his commencement speech, about how much hell he had been put through in middle school by certain segments of the population.
I think you have valid points and I think we are in agreement on many. Ultimately there is a lot more to it than statistics.
I never said they're wasting time, I said the desire to over analyze creates it's own issues, including the possibility of false hope.
Yes, it is my opinion that attempting to know your child as an individual and honestly judging their true capabilities (not through rose colored parent glasses) is an important part of the process. The process being to fill their tool box with what they will ultimately need to make their own decisions. Ultimately they will make their own decisions as an individual, and that will include who they associate with.
I don't think patterns of human behavior change that much because of a particular school. I think more than the district you attended has a situation with "popular kids" vs others (or Jocks vs. Nerds as the case may be). I don't think that goes away in a school with better statistics. The numbers or trappings of popularity may change, but not the basic behavior. I mean, Imagine the amount of shame the poor kid attending Mr. Moneybags HS must feel when he has to drive to school in a Honda...oh the shame of not having a Mercedes..
This doesn't mean I suggest putting them into a less advantageous position. But IMO, if someone with a pre-school age child is considering purchasing a house in either Bethpage or Plainedge and relies strictly on the statistics of each of those districts to make a choice then they are not necessarily making the best decision.
Obviously, there is no knowing how each district will perform 10 years in the future. More importantly, the difference in numbers between those schools are small enough as to truly be insignificant and other factors should take precedent.
I think you have valid points and I think we are in agreement on many. Ultimately there is a lot more to it than statistics.
I never said they're wasting time, I said the desire to over analyze creates it's own issues, including the possibility of false hope.
Yes, it is my opinion that attempting to know your child as an individual and honestly judging their true capabilities (not through rose colored parent glasses) is an important part of the process. The process being to fill their tool box with what they will ultimately need to make their own decisions. Ultimately they will make their own decisions as an individual, and that will include who they associate with.
I don't think patterns of human behavior change that much because of a particular school. I think more than the district you attended has a situation with "popular kids" vs others (or Jocks vs. Nerds as the case may be). I don't think that goes away in a school with better statistics. The numbers or trappings of popularity may change, but not the basic behavior. I mean, Imagine the amount of shame the poor kid attending Mr. Moneybags HS must feel when he has to drive to school in a Honda...oh the shame of not having a Mercedes..
This doesn't mean I suggest putting them into a less advantageous position. But IMO, if someone with a pre-school age child is considering purchasing a house in either Bethpage or Plainedge and relies strictly on the statistics of each of those districts to make a choice then they are not necessarily making the best decision.
Obviously, there is no knowing how each district will perform 10 years in the future. More importantly, the difference in numbers between those schools are small enough as to truly be insignificant and other factors should take precedent.
Can't argue with any of it.
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