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Like I said previously - I was the poster you were replying to and even though he is a public employee we pay towards his healthcare (and I'm not even on his plan, so I pay for mine through my employer) and although he has a pension, we contribute plenty to it and we also contribute an additional 11% to our own 401ks.
I don't want this to turn into a "unions suck" discussion, but they do. We are anti-union and my husband doesn't currently enjoy any of the benefits of working for a union. He is a teacher in a children's mental hospital, where kids spit on him and throw TVs at him. He loves his job and would never consider doing anything different, because he realizes he has the ability to make a difference in these kids' lives and he's a social studies teacher with a special education certification, so this was a great opportunity for him. But if he had a choice, he would opt-out of his union.
Why exactly would he opt out of his union? I am not following.
Why exactly would he opt out of his union? I am not following.
Not all unions are created equal - public schools, police, firefighters, etc. tend to have very strong unions that go to bat for their workers, but in other environments, the union is basically a tool of management. The union rep is given a sweet gig (think person who gets to sit in an office playing Candy Crush all day while the regular workers are doing extremely difficult jobs, like C's husband who teaches in a psych hospital), and is then basically used to push through any and all contract changes that management wants, under the threat of "this is the best deal we're going to get, so we better all take it or else, while chipping away at many of the benefits traditionally associated with being in a union, such as fully-paid healthcare, regular step increases, etc. The union will also be used as a means to "hush up" things like serious accidents on the job or problems with supervisors - employees who complain or are hurt will be told to "take it up with the union," and then the union rep promptly buries the problem rather than helping the employee, or worse yet, "investigates" and determines it to be the employee's fault.
Not all unions are created equal - public schools, police, firefighters, etc. tend to have very strong unions that go to bat for their workers, but in other environments, the union is basically a tool of management. The union rep is given a sweet gig (think person who gets to sit in an office playing Candy Crush all day while the regular workers are doing extremely difficult jobs, like C's husband who teaches in a psych hospital), and is then basically used to push through any and all contract changes that management wants, under the threat of "this is the best deal we're going to get, so we better all take it or else, while chipping away at many of the benefits traditionally associated with being in a union, such as fully-paid healthcare, regular step increases, etc. The union will also be used as a means to "hush up" things like serious accidents on the job or problems with supervisors - employees who complain or are hurt will be told to "take it up with the union," and then the union rep promptly buries the problem rather than helping the employee, or worse yet, "investigates" and determines it to be the employee's fault.
So how would not being in the union alleviate any of those concerns. Sounds like a change in jobs would make more sense than opting out of being a union member. Contracts change and coverage changes but, I have never seen anyone leave a union position to go work for a non union private company unless salary is dramatically different.
Like I said previously - I was the poster you were replying to and even though he is a public employee we pay towards his healthcare (and I'm not even on his plan, so I pay for mine through my employer) and although he has a pension, we contribute plenty to it and we also contribute an additional 11% to our own 401ks.
I don't want this to turn into a "unions suck" discussion, but they do.
Not trying to turn this into pro or anti union.
My assertion (from the perspective of someone with a family) is that earning $100K and having a job with benefits would make life a little easier for someone on LI as opposed to earning $100K and not having benefits.
The first question was answered -- you're making a partial contribution (15%, 50%, 75%?) for health insurance because it is supplied by your employers. Imagine the bite it would take out of your pocket if you had to pay for this in full and only earned $100K.
Your husband's employer offers a pension which the employer contributes to and you're able to contribute more to as well. (You're very fortunate )
If you had to pay full freight for health insurance, dental work, etc., would you be able to contribute as much to retirement, or a rainy day fund if you only earned $100K?
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Just to give you an idea of what I am currently dealing with as my family's health insurance is up for renewal (this is clipped from the insurance broker's email)
Quote:
...As for now though, you can keep your existing plan design, or enroll with any of the Oxford alternative plans.
Current Monthly Rates: Renewal Monthly Rates:
$1,722.63 $1,919.47 (overall approx 10.6% increase)
That's $23,033.64 a year or 23% of my hypothetical $100K salary or $2,362.08 I have to find within my budget.
I don't know how anyone who purchased a house on LI during the late 90's until 2006 and earns $100K handles this -- especially if they have young children and added daycare expenses or older children playing sports, needing braces, etc.
So how would not being in the union alleviate any of those concerns. Sounds like a change in jobs would make more sense than opting out of being a union member. Contracts change and coverage changes but, I have never seen anyone leave a union position to go work for a non union private company unless salary is dramatically different.
The thinking, at least among folks I know who have said they'd rather not have a union, is that the salary/benefits would (or at least, potentially could) be significantly improved if you weren't in a union, because you could then negotiate with management directly on your own behalf, based on your own performance history, qualifications, etc., instead of being bound by whatever artificial grading system the union has set up. You also wouldn't have to pay union dues, which can take a bite out of paychecks, especially for folks at the lower end of the pay scale. For people who feel like the union is working on management's behalf, it can be a real burn to watch your benefits shrink while losing a percentage of every paycheck to pay dues to the people who are making that shrinkage happen.
ETA: Also, so many large employers (and plenty of smaller ones) offer benefits that, in the past, could only be gotten through unions (i.e. health plans, 401K contributions, paid time off, etc.), that it can feel like the union's not "necessary" to protect those benefits the way it used to be. We no longer live in a world where you're definitely either union-with-benefits or non-union-with-no-benefits-at-all - there's a whole range in between.
The thinking, at least among folks I know who have said they'd rather not have a union, is that the salary/benefits would (or at least, potentially could) be significantly improved if you weren't in a union, because you could then negotiate with management directly on your own behalf, based on your own performance history, qualifications, etc., instead of being bound by whatever artificial grading system the union has set up. You also wouldn't have to pay union dues, which can take a bite out of paychecks, especially for folks at the lower end of the pay scale. For people who feel like the union is working on management's behalf, it can be a real burn to watch your benefits shrink while losing a percentage of every paycheck to pay dues to the people who are making that shrinkage happen.
Summer before senior year in HS I took a part time job in a supermarket making minimum wage. I was told I had to join the union, and union dues were taken out of my paychecks. I was working 16-20 hours a week. Checking the NYS DoL website, min wage then was $3.35. Even if the dues were only a couple of dollars, it was a lot when you were grossing $67 on a good week.
The thinking, at least among folks I know who have said they'd rather not have a union, is that the salary/benefits would (or at least, potentially could) be significantly improved if you weren't in a union, because you could then negotiate with management directly on your own behalf, based on your own performance history, qualifications, etc., instead of being bound by whatever artificial grading system the union has set up. You also wouldn't have to pay union dues, which can take a bite out of paychecks, especially for folks at the lower end of the pay scale. For people who feel like the union is working on management's behalf, it can be a real burn to watch your benefits shrink while losing a percentage of every paycheck to pay dues to the people who are making that shrinkage happen.
ETA: Also, so many large employers (and plenty of smaller ones) offer benefits that, in the past, could only be gotten through unions (i.e. health plans, 401K contributions, paid time off, etc.), that it can feel like the union's not "necessary" to protect those benefits the way it used to be. We no longer live in a world where you're definitely either union-with-benefits or non-union-with-no-benefits-at-all - there's a whole range in between.
What fields are you referring to that can negotiate with management. Most of the jobs are so saturated the unions are the only reason pay hasn't dropped more. My workplace has job postings for custodians a couple times a year. The salary is paltry <30k for 40hr weeks. There are always several hundred applicants willing to pay those dues.
Summer before senior year in HS I took a part time job in a supermarket making minimum wage. I was told I had to join the union, and union dues were taken out of my paychecks. I was working 16-20 hours a week. Checking the NYS DoL website, min wage then was $3.35. Even if the dues were only a couple of dollars, it was a lot when you were grossing $67 on a good week.
Sorry to go OT.
Did you quit and get any of the other hundreds of minimum wage jobs that didn't require dues?
Did you quit and get any of the other hundreds of minimum wage jobs that didn't require dues?
As a matter of fact, I did. I was waiting for my friend's job to open up at a 5&10 as it was closer to my house. Once she graduated and left for college, I took her place. I had a younger friend lined up to take my job when I left for college a year later. It was a great job: closed on Sundays, full day on Saturday, after school M-F until 6, with 40 hour weeks in the summer.
I had a choice: take the supermarket job until the 5&10 job was available, or continue leaving applications waiting for a job to open up. Seeing as I liked going to concerts and buying clothes, I opted to work for the supermarket.
The point made earlier was that the union takes dues from those who are low end earners. There were several older women who were cashiers at that time. One was widowed. She had to work -- no choice. I can't say whether the union dues offered her any protections at that time.
You could look at it that way but, did she have paid vacations, holidays or sick time? Any health benefits? If so, those would surely not be offered by the mom and pop businesses paying the same wage.
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