Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It sure isn't. Especially not for those who have bought their houses in recent years without handouts from family or via inheriting their parents' houses or by using equity acquired from previous homes.
Once again, if you people want to make the argument that the benefits need to be scaled back, fine. But 100k is not a high salary on Long Island anymore.
I don't think anyone thinks 100K (before federal, state, sales, and property taxes) is a 'high" salary on Lng Island. 100K net is another story.
I would also like to know where 20 hrs a week came from. Eliminating lunch and prep periods from hours worked isn't exactly fair. I work in private industry. I take lunch. For me it is not 40 hrs plus lunch. And part of my time is treating patients and part of it is doing paperwork that is necessary or else medicare will not reimburse the facility for my treatments. That is basically my prep period. And writing up my evaluations and developing the treatment plan is like my lesson planning. None of you do paperwork for your jobs? I do and it is part of what I am paid to do. I am not going to fault a teacher for getting paid for lesson planning. That is part of their job. So only their classroom time counts as working then? Are you accounting for teachers who do grading at home, after school hours? As for lesson planning simply being changing dates on old lessons, that is an unfair generalization and perception that you have. I have 5 kids in school and have done a lot of reading on the new common core standards. With NYS requirements changing all the time, this means that teachers have all HAD to redo their lesson plans to meet the new requirements, and will continue to change things as the requirements continue to change.
Listen...I am all for cutting out of control benefits. And I am just as pissed as everyone that my taxes are going up by 700 bucks next year. I feel choked by the expense of living here. But to say all teachers are working part time and just change dates on lessons....come on, that is really a bit much.
Classroom time for public school teachers is 4 hours/day. I have many friends who are public school teachers (some are music teachers = no paperwork to grade - all they do is sing with the kids and teach them songs) - this is where I've gotten my information. They have told me they get 1 hour for lunch and one hour for lesson planning. And they have freely admitted they do very little with those lesson plans.
I also have many friends who are retired teachers. On of them, Rex Holden, from Sayville, retired band teacher there, told me when he first retired that he felt like a thief receiving an enormous amount of pension checks in his mailbox while he sits around and does no work. He's actually apologized to many people for the state of affairs regarding the unions. I do think a lot of retired teachers feel guilty and badly about the legalized thievery that's going on -
As far as their mountains of paperwork go, of course they're not paid overtime for correcting tests and grading papers in their own home on their own time. They're not paid anymore than my husband is when he has paperwork and computer work to do on his own time after his 10-hour work day. Or the work my daughter has to do after her 12-hour workday, or when both of them have to go in over the weekend and do more unpaid work. Teachers never work on the weekends - or am I wrong about that too? Just this past Sunday night my husband was on the phone with Microsoft from around 10 PM to 5:15 AM. Practically all night. Do you really think some teacher would be that dedicated - especially when they're not seeing dollar signs for it?
I can't possibly get any teacher to testify about changing dates on lesson plans - have only heard about it. So, you're right - I have no proof. Just word of mouth.
But yes, they are teaching part time. I don't know about your yearly calendar, but in mine there are 52 weeks per year. Most private sector company jobs will give you 2 weeks off per year (10 work days), that's what I always got, and if you're lucky to survive, after 5 years some companies give you 3 weeks off per year. That's it. According to my arithmetic, that's working 49 - 50 weeks per year in the private sector at a 50-hour work week these days. On LI work begins at 7:30 AM and the end of the day is at 5:30 PM. Versus the typical teacher working, according to your numbers, 6 hours per day for a grand total of a 30-hour work week for 38 weeks per year, and let's not forget about all of those single day holidays - Columbus Day, Yom Kippur, 2 days for the Jewish New Year, etc., etc., etc. Just about every month has one or two.
And if you care to check teacher pay on the internet, you will find that many teachers in their 40's are making way more than $100k/year. In another thread I've named several of my teacher friends and their corresponding salaries. It's all public knowledge thanks to the internet. They're sitting pretty making well over $130K/year for their part-time jobs. They spend every nickel knowing they'll get enormous pensions so they don't save any money - they don't have to. My neighbor's daughter-in-law is an elementary teacher making $96K this year - she's in her 6th year of teaching. God only knows what she'll be making in 10 years. Of course, every school district has different pay scales with higher and lower salaries (what are there - about 116 or so in Suffolk alone? Just think, if there was only one Suffolk school district, then we would have to pay only 1 superintendent instead of 116 - think of all the millions in savings in pension checks alone - wow!). While my husband and our acquaintances after 30+ years working in the non-union private sector are either laid off or making approximately $80k/year.
And don't even get me started on pensions. And the lack thereof in the private sector vs. guaranteed pensions for governmental workers.
So, while you try and make your case, I'm someone who has ties to the teaching profession through friends (one of my good friends is superintendent of North Babylon schools - you ought to hear what she has to say about not being able to fire tenured burned out and/or incompetent teachers because of the unions' laws protecting these bad teachers where these teachers can actually hire the school district's educational attorneys on the taxpayers dime to defend themselves against being laid off), I still stand by what I've posted. Teachers are over compensated for the time and effort they are required for their jobs.
And in response to Pequaman: I don't hate cops and teachers. I hate their bloated paychecks and pensions, and the way the unions and politicians are in league together. Go to the library and take out "Shadowbosses - Government Unions Control America and Rob Taxpayers Blind" by Mallory Factor. Maybe that will wake you up.
No one in private industry gets 4+ weeks paid vacation?
And someone mentioned lifetime tenure. To fire someone with tenure requires due process but an incompetent teacher can get fired and even tenured teachers have been excessed in recent years. If incompetent teachers keep their jobs, that is a supervisory issue and a lazy district administrator issue. Tenure was first designed to prevent people of power and influence in the public from getting a teacher fired for giving their kid a B. Or for faulty accusations to be thoroughly examined and investigated so that people in public positions, such as teachers, can be protected from false accusations due to a personal vendetta over a grade, etc. If incompetent teachers are kept in position then parents need to join together and lobby the district, call the state, etc. I have called the state to report an issue with how our local administrators were handling an issue, and it actually did help.
You'd be lucky to get 4 weeks paid, max, in the private sector under the current climate. Even if you did, you won't be able to use it.
The rationale for tenure is true but the same can be said for private sector workers. Who wouldn't want to have a mechanism that protects them from arbitrarily losing their jobs? But hardly anyone in the private sector has job security nowadays (or good jobs for that matter) and these are the people who must pay taxes.
You are talking about special areas teachers. I agree that for someone who has no grading to do, there are many who are grossly overcompensated. Maybe salary should change with grade level or subject area. Certainly the teachers prepping kids for the ELA and math assessments and regents are under higher stress with their performance evals directly related to how well their kids score than a music or gym teacher.
Also, as far as other teachers who deserve their salaries... a good special ed teacher has specialized training and is worth his or her weight in gold, giving kids with needs marketable skills and life skills needed for the real world, so that these kids can be productive members of society, contributing to society and saving us tax dollars in the long run.
I can tell you though that those special areas teachers...music, gym, art, library, etc are the first ones excessed. Here in my local district, most of these teachers (with and without tenure, btw) were excessed, and most of these teachers now travel to multiple schools within the district. One gym teacher teaches in three different schools to save on the cost of having 3 gym teachers.. and yet we have so many administrators. Hmmm...
No one in private industry gets 4+ weeks paid vacation?
And someone mentioned lifetime tenure. To fire someone with tenure requires due process but an incompetent teacher can get fired and even tenured teachers have been excessed in recent years. If incompetent teachers keep their jobs, that is a supervisory issue and a lazy district administrator issue.
According to union rules, a teacher is entitled to use the school district's attorneys to defend themselves in court from being fired. If the court rules they are to be fired after the case is heard, then the teacher is compensated with an exhorbitant amount of money - $1 million and upwards. This is the kind of protection the unions afford the tenured teachers. Which is why incompetent teachers are kept around.
You can email or call any superintendent and get roughly the same answer from them. Or look it up on line.
I don't know any salaried worker in private industry who gets 4 weeks/year. If they do, they don't take it for fear they'll lose their job.
AndreaII-You commented on vacations and tenure and ignored the rest. So what do you think of my proposal to pay teachers according to grade level/ subject level or work load? Do you really think a special ed teacher with specialty training is overpaid, when their work saves us tax dollars in the long run by helping these kids who could remain fully dependent on others and fall through the cracks learn marketable skills and become productive members of society? Are the teachers who are prepping kids for the ELA, math assessments and regents exams, whose performance evals (published for the world to see) depend heavily on their students assessment scores as overcompensated as your music teacher friends?
You commented on one sentence I said about vacations and ignored the rest. So what do you think of my proposal to pay teachers according to grade level/ subject level or work load? Do you really think a special ed teacher with specialty training is overpaid, when their work saves us tax dollars in the long run by helping these kids who could be fully dependent on others and fall through the cracks learn marketable skills and become productive members of society? Is a teacher prepping kids for the ELA, math assessments and regents exams, whose performance evals (published for the world to see) depend heavily on their students assessment scores as overcompensated as your music teacher friends?
Would those same teachers still line up to do the job if it paid 20% less? Worth their weight in gold is one thing, doesn't mean they should be paid more than what it takes to get qualified people to do the job.
According to union rules, a teacher is entitled to use the school district's attorneys to defend themselves in court from being fired. If the court rules they are to be fired after the case is heard, then the teacher is compensated with an exhorbitant amount of money - $1 million and upwards. This is the kind of protection the unions afford the tenured teachers. Which is why incompetent teachers are kept around.
You can email or call any superintendent and get roughly the same answer from them. Or look it up on line.
I don't know any salaried worker in private industry who gets 4 weeks/year. If they do, they don't take it for fear they'll lose their job.
Wow! In your district teachers accused of misconduct or incompetence by the district are defended by district lawyers. And then the teachers are paid a million dollars if they are fired? I wanna be a teacher and I want to be a teacher in your district! Or it could be you are completely wrong.
AndreaII-You commented on vacations and tenure and ignored the rest. So what do you think of my proposal to pay teachers according to grade level/ subject level or work load? Do you really think a special ed teacher with specialty training is overpaid, when their work saves us tax dollars in the long run by helping these kids who could remain fully dependent on others and fall through the cracks learn marketable skills and become productive members of society? Are the teachers who are prepping kids for the ELA, math assessments and regents exams, whose performance evals (published for the world to see) depend heavily on their students assessment scores as overcompensated as your music teacher friends?
In order to do that you have to get rid of the teachers' unions first.
Teachers' unions will not go for that. They demand the same for all teachers in the contract, no matter how good or poorly indvidual teachers perform, no matter what the workload, specialty or subject, grade taught, difficulty of dealing with students, etc.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
