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But is it fair to those who already live in an upscale area, to have "affordable" housing forced upon them? Yes, I've heard all the hoopla about how the "woke" world is supposed to work, with all sorts of "equity" for everyone. However, equity should work both ways. If a segment of the population has worked hard, to get where they are, which includes a nice home, in a good neighborhood, why should they be required to subsidize those who aren't willing to put in the effort to earn the same level of success, but still want the perks that go along with it?
This is you rehashing your "my ancestors worked hard and didn't need no handouts" line. Instead of repeating what I already wrote, I'll try a different line of thought. Since you're posting on the Long Island subforum and you want to talk about hard work in the good ol' days, why don't we talk some more about what another person already mentioned: Levittown?
The original Levittown homes sold for roughly $8,000 in 1949. Adjusted for inflation, that's about $100,500 today. There are exactly zero brand new homes on Long Island that sell for $100,500 today, whether in Levittown or somewhere else on the island. So again, appealing to hard work from the good ol' days simply doesn't make any sense. You can have $100,500 cash today, but you ain't buying no brand new single-family home on LI today.
And I haven't even mentioned the elephant in the room yet: the original Levittown homes were only available to white World War II veterans. If you were a non-white WWII veteran in 1949, you could have worked just as "hard" as a white WWII veteran, but you would not have been allowed to purchase a Levitt home even if you had $8,000 cash. And since you wouldn't have been allowed to purchase one, naturally you wouldn't have been able to pass the home down to your kids etc.
I'm NOT saying you have to feel bad about US racial problems from 1949. I'm also NOT saying that you or anyone else needs to make any sort of reparations for that. NO.
What I am saying that it's quite tone deaf to say that all you need is hard work and you can make it today just like your ancestors did in the good ol' days. And it's even worse to say that while justifying NIMBY policies against multi-family housing.
But is it fair to those who already live in an upscale area, to have "affordable" housing forced upon them? Yes, I've heard all the hoopla about how the "woke" world is supposed to work, with all sorts of "equity" for everyone. However, equity should work both ways. If a segment of the population has worked hard, to get where they are, which includes a nice home, in a good neighborhood, why should they be required to subsidize those who aren't willing to put in the effort to earn the same level of success, but still want the perks that go along with it?
I totally agree, I grew up in a very, very middle class, very blue collar neighborhood. As teens, we became aware that not everyone lived as we did and there were "wealthy" people who had huge homes and grounds and some with servants. Those people whose occupations were Doctors and Lawyers etc. were pointed out to us as an incentive for us to study hard, go to school and become a "professional". We did not expect to be handed things because we could not live the way they did. Today it is a very different world and because you have worked hard and achieved, today your reward is that you need to subsidize those that have not to bring them to a certain level.
I am not against the poor or homeless, what I am against is hand-outs. I ascribe to the, "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime" school.
I personally have been taught to fish and that is why I am able to live comfortably now in retirement. Now I am not living on waterfront property and traveling in the best restaurants circles, but then again, that is not something I ever wanted.
I totally agree, I grew up in a very, very middle class, very blue collar neighborhood. As teens, we became aware that not everyone lived as we did and there were "wealthy" people who had huge homes and grounds and some with servants. Those people whose occupations were Doctors and Lawyers etc. were pointed out to us as an incentive for us to study hard, go to school and become a "professional". We did not expect to be handed things because we could not live the way they did. Today it is a very different world and because you have worked hard and achieved, today your reward is that you need to subsidize those that have not, to bring them to a certain level.
I am not against the poor or homeless, what I am against is hand-outs. I ascribe to the, "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime" school.
I personally have been taught to fish and that is why I am able to live comfortably now in retirement. Now I am not living on waterfront property and traveling in the best restaurants circles, but then again, that is not something I ever wanted.
This is you rehashing your "my ancestors worked hard and didn't need no handouts" line. Instead of repeating what I already wrote, I'll try a different line of thought. Since you're posting on the Long Island subforum and you want to talk about hard work in the good ol' days, why don't we talk some more about what another person already mentioned: Levittown?
The original Levittown homes sold for roughly $8,000 in 1949. Adjusted for inflation, that's about $100,500 today. There are exactly zero brand new homes on Long Island that sell for $100,500 today, whether in Levittown or somewhere else on the island. So again, appealing to hard work from the good ol' days simply doesn't make any sense. You can have $100,500 cash today, but you ain't buying no brand new single-family home on LI today.
And I haven't even mentioned the elephant in the room yet: the original Levittown homes were only available to white World War II veterans. If you were a non-white WWII veteran in 1949, you could have worked just as "hard" as a white WWII veteran, but you would not have been allowed to purchase a Levitt home even if you had $8,000 cash. And since you wouldn't have been allowed to purchase one, naturally you wouldn't have been able to pass the home down to your kids etc.
I'm NOT saying you have to feel bad about US racial problems from 1949. I'm also NOT saying that you or anyone else needs to make any sort of reparations for that. NO.
What I am saying that it's quite tone deaf to say that all you need is hard work and you can make it today just like your ancestors did in the good ol' days. And it's even worse to say that while justifying NIMBY policies against multi-family housing.
I bet the cost comparison differential can be used in just about any place in America these days.
I bet the cost comparison differential can be used in just about any place in America these days.
Probably so! Which further reinforces the hollowness of the "my ancestors worked hard and didn't need no handouts" line.
Frankly, the whole "hard work" thing is a red herring. The easiest way to see this is to ask whether the people who are against scare quote "affordable housing" are okay with market-rate apartments being built on LI. In case our Western New York friend doesn't know, market-rate on LI can easily be ~$3,000 a month. Three grand a month ain't no "handout" rate. So market-rate apartments on LI are a good thing, right?
Ha. No. The same people who are against scare quote "affordable housing" and are pro-pull yourself up by your bootstraps are also against ~$3,000 a month market-rate apartments on LI. Because, well, insert your favorite NIMBY excuse here. "Multi-family housing clashes with our ahem unique suburban culture" etc.
So the whole "hard work" schtick is just a smokescreen.
Probably so! Which further reinforces the hollowness of the "my ancestors worked hard and didn't need no handouts" line.
So the whole "hard work" schtick is just a smokescreen.
Not for me! Just as my ancestors worked hard to earn what it took, to live where they chose, so did my wife and I. Could we have lived in an apartment? Yes, we could, but we chose to live in our "unique suburban culture", and absorb the costs of doing so.
This is you rehashing your "my ancestors worked hard and didn't need no handouts" line. Instead of repeating what I already wrote, I'll try a different line of thought. Since you're posting on the Long Island subforum and you want to talk about hard work in the good ol' days, why don't we talk some more about what another person already mentioned: Levittown?
The original Levittown homes sold for roughly $8,000 in 1949. Adjusted for inflation, that's about $100,500 today. There are exactly zero brand new homes on Long Island that sell for $100,500 today, whether in Levittown or somewhere else on the island. So again, appealing to hard work from the good ol' days simply doesn't make any sense. You can have $100,500 cash today, but you ain't buying no brand new single-family home on LI today.
And I haven't even mentioned the elephant in the room yet: the original Levittown homes were only available to white World War II veterans. If you were a non-white WWII veteran in 1949, you could have worked just as "hard" as a white WWII veteran, but you would not have been allowed to purchase a Levitt home even if you had $8,000 cash. And since you wouldn't have been allowed to purchase one, naturally you wouldn't have been able to pass the home down to your kids etc.
I'm NOT saying you have to feel bad about US racial problems from 1949. I'm also NOT saying that you or anyone else needs to make any sort of reparations for that. NO.
What I am saying that it's quite tone deaf to say that all you need is hard work and you can make it today just like your ancestors did in the good ol' days. And it's even worse to say that while justifying NIMBY policies against multi-family housing.
Good point about who could buy in Levittown, as there are some people on here that don’t want to believe that. Same occurred initially at other Levittowns in PA and NJ. https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-am...t-of-suburbia/
I think the thing is that people are automatically equating living in “affordable” housing with not working, when said people may work at more working class or lower paying jobs or have to work longer for the money they make. Especially if the housing is say 40-70% of the median income. If anything, these are people that make too much to get assistance, but don’t make a living wage or work multiple jobs/longer hours. So, they may work just as hard or even harder to make the money they make.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 01-18-2023 at 06:30 AM..
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