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In 13 years of inspecting, I have seen only 1 house that used propane as a heating source and I think it was a summer house.
I prefer gas to oil but $7000 is alot of money to pay National Grid. It would take a LONG time to recoup that kind of money. Do you ever plan on moving or its this your dream house?
How is that? Currently the price of oil is trading at 20x + that of natural gas? Normally the ratio is 6 - 10x that of gas. At the first sign of a turn in the economy or not, depending on the largess of the Fed to keep pumping funny money into the system, oil will move much higher. Since there is a glut of gas, chances are the OP would recoup sooner. If OP stays in house, 10 years, he will see investment pay off.
How is that? Currently the price of oil is trading at 20x + that of natural gas? Normally the ratio is 6 - 10x that of gas. At the first sign of a turn in the economy or not, depending on the largess of the Fed to keep pumping funny money into the system, oil will move much higher. Since there is a glut of gas, chances are the OP would recoup sooner. If OP stays in house, 10 years, he will see investment pay off.
If you look at the past ten years, they about break even in terms of cost. You have to concider the btu factor of both fuels. No one can predict future prices. Everyone says that gas will be cheaper going forward but I will believe when I see it. Plus he is already paying for a new system wheich will run around another $7000. Plus he could invest or save the $7000. Over ten years, he could make (or lose) money. The average home owner moves every 7 years so it really depends on the situation.
If you look at the past ten years, they about break even in terms of cost. You have to concider the btu factor of both fuels. No one can predict future prices. Everyone says that gas will be cheaper going forward but I will believe when I see it. Plus he is already paying for a new system wheich will run around another $7000. Plus he could invest or save the $7000. Over ten years, he could make (or lose) money. The average home owner moves every 7 years so it really depends on the situation.
What's scary about gas too is that on LI you are at the mercy of a for profit private company, National Grid, who has a total monopoly, and they will raise their prices to make a profit and could probably not care less what the trading price ratio is to oil ... they just want to get theirs! If you read up on National Grid, you will see that they are an international company and many of the "forced" customers of their monopolies in other countries absolutely hate them for ripping people off.
What's scary about gas too is that on LI you are at the mercy of a for profit private company, National Grid, who has a total monopoly, and they will raise their prices to make a profit and could probably not care less what the trading price ratio is to oil ... they just want to get theirs! If you read up on National Grid, you will see that they are an international company and many of the "forced" customers of their monopolies in other countries absolutely hate them for ripping people off.
It's true that Nat Grid has a monopoly, but it has been granted that monopoly by state regulators of the Utility Commission and is governed by regulations. It is the governor who appoints those who sit as regulators - they set the amount of return that can be earned by Nat Grid. As for the price of gas itself, that is set by the marketplace, right now it is trading at the lows, but as KB indicated, you just don't know where it's going to go.
As far as electricity prices, I'm willing to bet alot of that has to do with the Shoreham debacle. A lot of LI'ers didn't want the plant, well they got what they asked for, in the form of outrageous electric rates. If I would have had a vote in the matter, I would have said to keep it.
It's true that Nat Grid has a monopoly, but it has been granted that monopoly by state regulators of the Utility Commission and is governed by regulations. It is the governor who appoints those who sit as regulators - they set the amount of return that can be earned by Nat Grid. As for the price of gas itself, that is set by the marketplace, right now it is trading at the lows, but as KB indicated, you just don't know where it's going to go.
Considering how they let LILCO run wild to give LI the dubious distinction of being THE PLACE in the USA with the highest electricity rates, I don't put much faith in them. Right now, water, which has been traditionally one of the lowest bills on LI, is going up astronomically for customers of LI American Water ... another private for profit company that is a national company. Nobody is reining them in. Why don't the regulators ever take a look at the rates for electricity in Rockville Centre or Freeport and say to LIPA, "How come you charge so much more?" They're all on the same grid and all buying from/trading to power produced from the same sources.
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Originally Posted by FrmlyBklyn
As far as electricity prices, I'm willing to bet alot of that has to do with the Shoreham debacle. A lot of LI'ers didn't want the plant, well they got what they asked for, in the form of outrageous electric rates. If I would have had a vote in the matter, I would have said to keep it.
I don't know. How come RVC and Freeport supply power to their municipalities for 1/3 to 1/2 the rates LIPA does? They don't have a nuclear power plant. The damn thing should not have been built in the first place and whoever decided to build it BEFORE an evacuation plan was approved should have been hung IMO because it cost (and we are still paying) the taxpayers a ton of money to get LILCO off the hook and to dismantle it. Actually, I would have said keep it and use it, as there was already a nuclear power plant right across the LI Sound ... Indian Point. If Indian Point were to blow up it will affect LI'ers exactly the same way Shoreham would have, so what's the difference? Indian Point didn't have to have an evacuation plan for LI even though they would affect us because they are in a different state. All ridiculousness.
Natural Gas is the way to go. IMHO using oil for home heating is outdated, dirty, and a pain in the rear. I have a central air and gas heat system and it is very clean and efficient.
That being said...National grid is the worst excuse for an energy company I have ever seen. It's not as much the rates but their system. The whole actual and estimate every other much is akin to them using a ouji board.
Back in the day meter readers would go to your home and read the thing...now I doubt they ever really look at the meter at all. I say this because every month they get it wrong. I call them , read my meter over the phone and their response one time....are you ready for this...."whoops"
It wasn't a few therms off, it was over 100 therms..and no it wasn't an estimate month it was an actual...A guy read it and got it wrong. My bill was reduced over 100 bucks...for the 3rd time. one month I was given a credit for 27 cents.
I will give oil credit in this aspect...you know how much is being delivered to you. NG is running a nice scam. I can only imagine what happens to people that bend over and take it each month.
In reference to Propane I have a friend who uses it to heat his pool. He says it's very efficient and gets his pool hot but he spends about a grand per summer on it.
Considering how they let LILCO run wild to give LI the dubious distinction of being THE PLACE in the USA with the highest electricity rates, I don't put much faith in them. Right now, water, which has been traditionally one of the lowest bills on LI, is going up astronomically for customers of LI American Water ... another private for profit company that is a national company. Nobody is reining them in. Why don't the regulators ever take a look at the rates for electricity in Rockville Centre or Freeport and say to LIPA, "How come you charge so much more?" They're all on the same grid and all buying from/trading to power produced from the same sources.
I don't know. How come RVC and Freeport supply power to their municipalities for 1/3 to 1/2 the rates LIPA does? They don't have a nuclear power plant. The damn thing should not have been built in the first place and whoever decided to build it BEFORE an evacuation plan was approved should have been hung IMO because it cost (and we are still paying) the taxpayers a ton of money to get LILCO off the hook and to dismantle it. Actually, I would have said keep it and use it, as there was already a nuclear power plant right across the LI Sound ... Indian Point. If Indian Point were to blow up it will affect LI'ers exactly the same way Shoreham would have, so what's the difference? Indian Point didn't have to have an evacuation plan for LI even though they would affect us because they are in a different state. All ridiculousness.
American Water is raising rates to recoup costs associated with the replacememnt of infrastructure (read: pipes) that are at replacement time.
Pipe and labor today, costs alot more than it did back in the day. The local municipalities have been selling out to companies like American Water to absolve them from having to take on debt or directly raise taxes on the citizens. In effect, you are paying an indirect tax for water services. American Water is also subject to regulatory bodies, the regulators aren't stupid, they know that the pipes need replacing. Which would you prefer, water flowing through your taps, or cracked pipes and no water? The water company has got us, unless of course, we decide to go with water desalination plants, then we can tell them to go eff themselves.
Rockville Center doesn't have the widespread infrastructure in place, that Nat Grid has. That infrastructure needs to be maintained. Also, Rockville Center doesn't have to support x number of employees that Nat Grid has - all these costs add up. I think, if I'm not mistaken, Nat Grid also has a few power plants in LI that it runs on behalf of LIPA.
As far as Indian Point, it's located across the Sound on the Hudson in Buchanan, NY. Close to CT, but not quite. If that goes, we are all cooked, Rockland, Dutchess, Westchester, NYC, LI, parts of Northern and Central Jersey. There is no way in heck, that 15 million people could evacuate in a orderly and timely fashion.
^^^
TY for info about what LI American Water is doing. So do you think other municipalities will sell out like Smithtown, etc.? The residents of local municipal run water districts have really low water bills now.
What does RVC have to do with National Grid exactly? I am comparing them to LIPA.
I just think the municipal power works out better for the customers and is not a ripoff. I don't believe necessities of life such as water, electricity, etc. should be a ripoff and a monopoly for a for profit company. Yet look at health care in this country. That's a ripoff and is the most essential necessity of life ... but I digress.
As for Indian Point ... yup that is what would happen. So IMO we might as well have powered up Shoreham and used it. The security there was crazy. I did a specialized contract job in there when they were closing it. Contractors had to be followed everywhere and could not even go to the bathroom alone. They had a bomb sniffer machine you had to walk through (and sometimes ladies' strong perfume would set it off LOL). They would even x-ray a cup of coffee if you were bringing it into the building. What I am saying is that they were very serious about security and safety and if they continued on that way, I don't think there would have been any disaster to worry about.
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